Genesis 19:8 - Lot offering his daughters

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bud62

bud62

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#61
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washburn Tn
#61
presidente said:
If lot had two married daughters and two son-in-laws, then they apparently did not make the cut.
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He went and tried to talk to but they thought he was crazy. they didn't believe that GOD was going to destroy them,
 
P

presidente

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#63
May 29, 2013
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#63
posthuman said:
yup

And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law. ​
(Genesis 19:14) ​
​
i reckon Abraham *hoped* all his relatives there were righteous, and as i understand it, he had 10 relatives in the city.
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I'll have to read through this passage and think about it again. That's a pretty interesting thing to meditate on. Many people who love God have the same problem, relatives who are not righteous before God.
 
bud62

bud62

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#64
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washburn Tn
#64
posthuman said:
And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: for we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it. And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.​
(Genesis 19:12-14) ​
​
the angels mention sons-in-law, sons and daughters. i think they knew who they were talking about. Lot had 2 sons, 2 sons-in-law, and 4 daughters. but he didn't go to his sons ((why?)) he only went to his sons-in-law ((where 2 of his daughters were)). he balks at what the angels tell him all throughout this account, from beginning to end.

so Lot's sons were not warned, and they were among the men who sieged his house ((v.4 says all the men from every quarter set themselves around it)) - as were his sons-in-law. so they were left; the angels took everyone who was in the house with Lot by the hand. God knew this; guess why 2 angels were sent?

i think this is why Lot's wife looked back. for her sons. because she loved them.

this is the way i understand this, anyway. i am aware that it's not what is commonly taught.
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She turn and look back , And I think she was , BUT GOD turn Her into a pillow of salt, She was told not to look back, So I think she turn ,to go back, It was in her heart anyway I think, GOD KNOWS
 
bud62

bud62

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#65
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washburn Tn
#65
presidente said:
I'll have to read through this passage and think about it again. That's a pretty interesting thing to meditate on. Many people who love God have the same problem, relatives who are not righteous before God.
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8 is all that I can count, Lot & wife & 4 daughters & 2 sons and law
 
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presidente

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#66
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#66
posthuman said:
And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: for we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it. And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.​
(Genesis 19:12-14) ​
​
the angels mention sons-in-law, sons and daughters. i think they knew who they were talking about. Lot had 2 sons, 2 sons-in-law, and 4 daughters. but he didn't go to his sons ((why?)) he only went to his sons-in-law ((where 2 of his daughters were)). he balks at what the angels tell him all throughout this account, from beginning to end.

so Lot's sons were not warned, and they were among the men who sieged his house ((v.4 says all the men from every quarter set themselves around it)) - as were his sons-in-law. so they were left; the angels took everyone who was in the house with Lot by the hand. God knew this; guess why 2 angels were sent?

i think this is why Lot's wife looked back. for her sons. because she loved them.

this is the way i understand this, anyway. i am aware that it's not what is commonly taught.
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What if the angels here were pretending to be human, feigning a lack of knowledge about Lot's family, or were just poorly informed angels when they said this:

12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:

Like "Who you got in your family? sons-in-laws? daughers? sons?

If Lot had sons at this time, then it doesn't show him talking to the sons.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#67
Jul 31, 2013
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#67
bud62 said:
She turn and look back , And I think she was , BUT GOD turn Her into a pillow of salt, She was told not to look back, So I think she turn ,to go back, It was in her heart anyway I think, GOD KNOWS
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Lot was told too. he hesitated at the house, and he refused direct command to go to the mountains. he argued over it. he argued with the angels from the moment they arrived - they wanted to stay in the square. Lot didn't want to leave and he didn't want to go where he was told to go. he had to literally be dragged away by angels.

so why was Lot saved? the scripture says why. God's mercy, v.16 -- Lot, even while called righteous by Peter, by his works didn't deserve to be spared. it was mercy. Peter doesn't call him righteous because of how he acted or what he did or didn't do. he describes his righteousness in terms of his heart being vexed by the wickedness he lived among ((2 Peter 2:7))
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#68
bud62 said:
8 is all that I can count, Lot & wife & 4 daughters & 2 sons and law
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and sons. verse 12.
unless you think the angels sent by God were ignorant.
 
B

bojack

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#69
Dec 16, 2019
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#69
posthuman said:
Lot's wife wasn't destroyed with Sodom. she was preserved in salt for a sign.

but yes ((as i read it)) Abraham chose the number 10 for a reason when he spoke to God about saving the city.

Lot
his wife
two unmarried daughters
two married daughters
their two husbands his sons-in-law
two sons

1 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 10
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Good stuff Bro , I learned something new
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#70
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posthuman said:
unless you think the angels sent by God were ignorant.
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i don't think the messengers sent by God were sent without knowledge.
i freely admit that's a presumption on my part; it's not sated that God's angels are not ignorant of the mission He sends them on.
but i believe they know what they are talking about. so when they tell Lot to speak to his sons, i infer that he actually has sons. that's plural so there are more than 1. if there are 2, then Abraham had 10 relatives in Sodom.
or maybe Abraham just picked a random number when he interceded with God? i can't really prove it. i make a few key assumptions and infer from what is written, as i've explained.
 
bud62

bud62

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#71
posthuman said:
and sons. verse 12.
unless you think the angels sent by God were ignorant.
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He surely Didn't have no sons unless they stayed with their wifes and got destroyed, He could have been just been asking Him if he had sons, Other then that I don't know, BUT GOD DOSE, ONLY 3 made it to the cave, where He stayed.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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bud62 said:
He could have been just been asking Him if he had sons,
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if you think that, then you necessarily think the angels were ignorant.
you're in good company if you do, by far the majority of preaching supposes the same thing. i don't happen to agree, and i've shown how my view is supported by the text and a little about how it explains a few other important things which are otherwise mysterious.
 
B

bojack

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#73
My assumptions had been that because of Abraham's intercession he convinced God to spare Lott but that nothing good come out of it after all .. I honestly missed that Lott had all that other family all this time .. For 10 righteous God would have spared the city so obviously they were not ..
 
bud62

bud62

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#74
posthuman said:
if you think that, then you necessarily think the angels were ignorant.
you're in good company if you do, by far the majority of preaching supposes the same thing. i don't happen to agree, and i've shown how my view is supported by the text and a little about how it explains a few other important things which are otherwise mysterious.
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God And JESUS Ask thing that they all ready knew, just Like GOD asking things that HE knew that HE could not answer, He ask Adam where are you when he knew where HE was, So I don't think they where ignorant at all, But do I know that they didn't know, no I don't know because the BIBLE dose not tell me or you, I guess all we can go on is our thoughts. And most of the time we will probably be wrong. GOD bless as HE sees fit
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#75
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#75
bud62 said:
God And JESUS Ask thing that they all ready knew, just Like GOD asking things that HE knew that HE could not answer, He ask Adam where are you when he knew where HE was, So I don't think they where ignorant at all,
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yes, i see it exactly the same :)

so when God asks Adam where he is, or Christ asks Simon if he loves Him, He knows; He isn't asking because He's trying to find something out, but because He is doing something to the person with the question.
same concept, i think, the angel is prompting Lot to remember his sons. i think this topic is related to what Jesus says, that to be His disciple you must even hate your own wife and children, Luke 14:26
 
bud62

bud62

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#76
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washburn Tn
#76
bud62 said:
God And JESUS Ask thing that they all ready knew, just Like GOD asking things that HE knew that HE could not answer, He ask Adam where are you when he knew where HE was, So I don't think they where ignorant at all, But do I know that they didn't know, no I don't know because the BIBLE dose not tell me or you, I guess all we can go on is our thoughts. And most of the time we will probably be wrong. GOD bless as HE sees fit
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I see that I left out Job name, I'm sorry
 
bud62

bud62

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#77
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#77
posthuman said:
yes, i see it exactly the same :)

so when God asks Adam where he is, or Christ asks Simon if he loves Him, He knows; He isn't asking because He's trying to find something out, but because He is doing something to the person with the question.
same concept, i think, the angel is prompting Lot to remember his sons. i think this topic is related to what Jesus says, that to be His disciple you must even hate your own wife and children, Luke 14:26
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He is saying that to make it to Heaven, We got to put HIM over every thing else. And keep HIM over every thing else, Even the other 1/2.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#78
bud62 said:
He is saying that to make it to Heaven, We got to put HIM over every thing else. And keep HIM over every thing else, Even the other 1/2.
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if we think to use this word to judge Lot's wife, what about Lot? did Lot put what God was telling him above all else? but Lot was saved - not by works, but by mercy
 
Moses_Young

Moses_Young

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#79
posthuman said:
if you think that, then you necessarily think the angels were ignorant.
you're in good company if you do, by far the majority of preaching supposes the same thing. i don't happen to agree, and i've shown how my view is supported by the text and a little about how it explains a few other important things which are otherwise mysterious.
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I had never heard this reasoning before, and it is interesting. It just seems odd that scripture is silent about so much, if true. Like, "But Lot was loathe to warn his two sons, for they were numbered amongst the sodomites". It also seems strange that if Lot pleaded with the angels to be sent to a nearby city, wouldn't he have pleaded for his remaining sons and daughters much more? Or if he didn't plead for them because they were so evil, that scripture doesn't record it.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Moses_Young said:
It just seems odd that scripture is silent about so much, if true.
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it's because the purpose of scripture isn't to give a complete historical narrative; it's to reveal the person and work of God. it's not a story about Lot and about Sodom - something incredibly heinous was going on there, far beyond homosexuality, but it's not detailed. it's a story testifying about Christ in types and figures and prophecy and symbols and shadows. it's real, literal history, but what's being said about it isn't being said because it's an almanac or encyclopedia -- what's said is said so we can come come to knowledge of God.

that's how i approach the Bible. i get this approach from passages like John 5:39, 5:46, Luke 24:27 -- it seems to me Christ is telling me, this book is all about Him. the purpose of it is to teach me of Him; until i am finding information about Him on every page, i'm not really comprehending what's being said.
maybe i'm wrong, but it has been a fantastically useful point of view for me, since i was 'turned on' to it
:)
 
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