A few months ago I stumbled across a conversation that some one was having. It said there is a part from the bible that was removed and they said it was a part where Paul condoned lying if it was for God. I honestly dont think Paul would say that. I've tried looking for the conversation and post and could not find it again. (I'm careful what I read about religion online as I have severe scruples) Did I perhaps misread or interpret? I'm just wondering if anyone else heard this.
Did Paul say this?
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It's certainly possible that the person you overheard made that claim; that is, that you did not mis-hear them. However, the claim has no basis in Scripture. Many people make claims about what Scripture says, but the Scripture doesn't actually say that. There is a recent thread on the subject... Verses that don't appear in the Bible or something similar.
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2Peter 3:16 tells us: "His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction". John tells us in Rev "all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire" I do not think Paul would tell a lie and risk the lake of fire. God is all about truth and there are no lies in him. The devil is a liar John 8:44 "for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." Paul said: " I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified." (1cor9:27)
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It would seem like it could apply to the many in Mathew 7 . Those the lord said he knew not. Called them workers of iniquity.
But he did not say the works were not performed . but rather exposed who they were. They accredited the wonderful works of God as some sort of self edifying work of pride.
In that way God is not served by human corrupted hands. He can use a unbeliever to bring the gospel just as easily as one like the many in Mathew 7.
But he did not say the works were not performed . but rather exposed who they were. They accredited the wonderful works of God as some sort of self edifying work of pride.
In that way God is not served by human corrupted hands. He can use a unbeliever to bring the gospel just as easily as one like the many in Mathew 7.
Line upon line...
This is something that has taken me until the past year or so to see filled in considerably. With increasing opportunities to compromise in the smallest of things, from ideology to entertainment, I try and find ways to navigate.
However, every time I do and try to create a worldview that sort of skirts around the ideologies that perpetrate themselves today, the space gets narrower and narrower.
Fortunately, the Lord has been building in me it seems my whole life. So that when I want to build with a particular block to "allow" a situation to be navigated in a way that could be "interpreted" as scriptural, it necessarily encounters other blocks (precepts).
In this case, without having what the person was saying it would be hard to give a response other than a vague "format" for how I deal with stuff like this.
Take for instance, ends justifies the means.
Someone is curious about God and hears another person mention some of the hardest things to speak of like genocide with the Amalekites and that person asks me about it. I think it would be best to have that discussion with the foundation of the Word as a backing and they haven't made any sort of commitment. Each and every question matters and so do the responses. If they were simply asking whether it's in scripture or not, I "could" say "I'm uncertain" which would be a lie. There's a lot of hypothetical gibberish that a lot of my interactions go through, but with these types of scenarios that's what I mean by "interpretation".
I could grab one scripture about how misdirection can be seen in scripture and that is lying after a fashion. However, after a fashion is NOT unequivocally "lying". So then it would go through further "processing" if conviction and my conscience were not aligned.
I've been quite roundabout today, but sometimes I reach quandaries when one scripture contradicts another (situationally) on what I should do in a particular moment, then other "lines" enter into the internal discussion.
In this case, it helps me to know...the Lord works all things to the good of those that love him and are called according to his purpose (rm 8:28).
So if the aforementioned reference in other posts was what the person was referring to, then Romans 8:28 would apply. It doesn't give license or liberty to transgress the law of the Lord simply because the Lord will use it. That would be ends justifies the means, and I don't personally believe we can effect that ourselves. We are to be image bearers and leave certain things up to him. "We" can't work all things to the good of those that love him and are called according to his purpose, but HE can.
I can't give much more than vagaries, but twisting scripture is something that a lot of people do and although sometimes it isn't intentional (I think I've probably done this in my own mind at some point) we have to measure it up against the whole...not one verse out of context.
This is something that has taken me until the past year or so to see filled in considerably. With increasing opportunities to compromise in the smallest of things, from ideology to entertainment, I try and find ways to navigate.
However, every time I do and try to create a worldview that sort of skirts around the ideologies that perpetrate themselves today, the space gets narrower and narrower.
Fortunately, the Lord has been building in me it seems my whole life. So that when I want to build with a particular block to "allow" a situation to be navigated in a way that could be "interpreted" as scriptural, it necessarily encounters other blocks (precepts).
In this case, without having what the person was saying it would be hard to give a response other than a vague "format" for how I deal with stuff like this.
Take for instance, ends justifies the means.
Someone is curious about God and hears another person mention some of the hardest things to speak of like genocide with the Amalekites and that person asks me about it. I think it would be best to have that discussion with the foundation of the Word as a backing and they haven't made any sort of commitment. Each and every question matters and so do the responses. If they were simply asking whether it's in scripture or not, I "could" say "I'm uncertain" which would be a lie. There's a lot of hypothetical gibberish that a lot of my interactions go through, but with these types of scenarios that's what I mean by "interpretation".
I could grab one scripture about how misdirection can be seen in scripture and that is lying after a fashion. However, after a fashion is NOT unequivocally "lying". So then it would go through further "processing" if conviction and my conscience were not aligned.
I've been quite roundabout today, but sometimes I reach quandaries when one scripture contradicts another (situationally) on what I should do in a particular moment, then other "lines" enter into the internal discussion.
In this case, it helps me to know...the Lord works all things to the good of those that love him and are called according to his purpose (rm 8:28).
So if the aforementioned reference in other posts was what the person was referring to, then Romans 8:28 would apply. It doesn't give license or liberty to transgress the law of the Lord simply because the Lord will use it. That would be ends justifies the means, and I don't personally believe we can effect that ourselves. We are to be image bearers and leave certain things up to him. "We" can't work all things to the good of those that love him and are called according to his purpose, but HE can.
I can't give much more than vagaries, but twisting scripture is something that a lot of people do and although sometimes it isn't intentional (I think I've probably done this in my own mind at some point) we have to measure it up against the whole...not one verse out of context.
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Romans 3:7
But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?
2 Corinthians 12:16
16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; nevertheless, crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by deceit.
Deceit=δόλος (dolos)
Strong: G1388
GK: G1515
pr. a bait or contrivance for entrapping, fraud, deceit, cunning, guile, Mt. 26:4; Mk. 7:22; 14:1
See everywhere dolos appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.
But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?
2 Corinthians 12:16
16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; nevertheless, crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by deceit.
Deceit=δόλος (dolos)
Strong: G1388
GK: G1515
pr. a bait or contrivance for entrapping, fraud, deceit, cunning, guile, Mt. 26:4; Mk. 7:22; 14:1
See everywhere dolos appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.
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IMO, whoever believes this simply does not understand what Paul is saying, or the context it is being said in. God is not a liar, nor would He ever condone/allow lying, not even to advance His Will/Kingdom.
In the 6th Chapter of Hebrews, vs. 18 it says:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
In the 23rd Chapter of Numbers it says:
19) "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
If ANY part of Scripture is a lie, then it is ALL a lie............. The deceiver is a liar, and the father of all liars............ God would never condone His servants to lie, even if it benefited Him........Truth is what justifies God, not lying.
In the 6th Chapter of Hebrews, vs. 18 it says:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
In the 23rd Chapter of Numbers it says:
19) "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
If ANY part of Scripture is a lie, then it is ALL a lie............. The deceiver is a liar, and the father of all liars............ God would never condone His servants to lie, even if it benefited Him........Truth is what justifies God, not lying.
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[QUOTE="p_rehbein, post: 4172188, member: 174109"
19) "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
[/QUOTE]
This quote from the Old Testament alone should firm all's belief in their salvation in Jesus, Yeshua. What a great encouragement for all who have heard the call. Praise Yah, amen.....
19) "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
[/QUOTE]
This quote from the Old Testament alone should firm all's belief in their salvation in Jesus, Yeshua. What a great encouragement for all who have heard the call. Praise Yah, amen.....
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Whispered answered your question where it is written if you believe Paul condoned lying for God.
Romans 3:7
But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?
Now guess what was Paul's lie that increased the glory of the word of God? Was it seeing a light brighter than the visible light of the sun? Was it hearing a voice but seeing no man? Or was it something else?
So how does the glory of God increase if you believe his lie as the word of God?
Romans 3:7
But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?
Now guess what was Paul's lie that increased the glory of the word of God? Was it seeing a light brighter than the visible light of the sun? Was it hearing a voice but seeing no man? Or was it something else?
So how does the glory of God increase if you believe his lie as the word of God?
I was thinking that when I saw this post. I guess the verse that is alludes to that is:
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. There is no compulsion in religion
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. There is no compulsion in religion