Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

EleventhHour

Guest
John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. (y)
Let's just keep repeating this to @Pisteuo over and over again.

Anyone who is born again in Christ knows what he is pushing is hogwash.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
as i see it what you're talking about is after surrendering, e.g. Colossians 1:29 'striving according to His working which works in me mightily' or Hebrews 1:24 'striving against sin'

in the context of surrender, it is very simply laying down ones arms. conceding defeat. putting no more effort into resistance. this is an entirely passive act: it is the changing from active to passive. a soldier who is engaged in the act of surrender to his enemy is dropping his weapons and raising his arms in the air, doing nothing but offering himself as a captor & waiting for what his erstwhile opponent will do with him. it is effectually an implicit plea for mercy.

one who shows an open hand in this way ((rather than a fist)) may afterwards strive in what is required of him by his new master, but that isn't the act of surrender but a consequence of it.




i do not agree with this in the way it is stated.
in the very moment i put away my sword, i have surrendered.




if i only feint - as though if Obi-Wan had pretended to drop his guard only to coerce Vader into committing to a certain strike, which he planned to parry and counter, then i have not actually 'surrendered'
Obi-Wan here truly surrenders, and it is over in an instant; the instant in which he does not move to block Vader's imminent fendente.
I agree with your warfare analogy. We surrender just like on a battlefield. With the only expectation of being a (
in this case willing) slave to the one surrendered to.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
113
I agree with your warfare analogy. We surrender just like on a battlefield. With the only expectation of being a (
in this case willing) slave to the one surrendered to.
i think that's where your understanding is clashing with that of some of the other people here -- i would call those acts of servitude that follow a result of surrender, not the act of surrender -- but i get the relationship you're drawing out ;)
a person who refuses the orders of the military they've surrendered to, or who tries to escape, or who tries to sabotage that army somehow once they've been taken captive, isn't truly '
surrendered' - not in their heart - they haven't given up the war but only one segment of a battle.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
i think that's where your understanding is clashing with that of some of the other people here -- i would call those acts of servitude that follow a result of surrender, not the act of surrender -- but i get the relationship you're drawing out ;)
a person who refuses the orders of the military they've surrendered to, or who tries to escape, or who tries to sabotage that army somehow once they've been taken captive, isn't truly '
surrendered' - not in their heart - they haven't given up the war but only one segment of a battle.
Right, to gain something for themselves.

And like I said, a daily surrender isn't a perfect surrender, but a surrender being perfected.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Right, to gain something for themselves.

And like I said, a daily surrender isn't a perfect surrender, but a surrender being perfected.
God is perfect and only a perfect sacrifice will do and that perfect sacrifice is JESUS CHRIST

I suggest humbling yourself before God and accept Him .. and get over your yourself and this delusion of perfect surrender that requires nothing in return.

No one has the capacity to be that selfless >>> only Jesus
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
No such thing as" believe and recieve." There's a process that needs to unfold.

I'm saying that a Continually surrendered life takes work and effort, courage and endurance. And a Continually surrendered life"is" saving Faith applied.

Any good works that follow are the result of that surrendered life. God's nature flowing through the sealed vessel.
This is your false gospel right here >>>>>> "earn your way; make yourself equal to God so He has no basis to judge you"
Change your thinking while there is still time
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
24,999
13,008
113
58
Christ and his word must be ours to talk about. A surrendered life must come first. Present yourself as a living sacrifice.
And like I said, a daily surrender isn't a perfect surrender, but a surrender being perfected.
It sounds to me like you are confusing justification with ongoing sanctification, which is typical of works-salvationists. :cautious:
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
As long as you believe that faith, that was God's gift, is the faith OF Christ, we are in the same page

Oh I seriously DOUBT that we are on the same Page. A gift is your possession, once you receive it.

EXPLAIN, what you mean by Born Again in YOUR WORDS, not asking that You Quote Scripture?
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
Christ and his word must be ours to talk about. A surrendered life must come first. Present yourself as a living sacrifice.
So you can’t support your incorrect statement with scripture. I appreciate you being honest.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
24,999
13,008
113
58

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,208
113