The way of our Lord Jesus Christ

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Mar 5, 2020
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You are painting a straw-man situation and pinning it on me. Here's what you need to do. Prove violent self-defense does not contradict the Sermon on the Mount. Or produce 1 example from the NT where it is permissible.
I cheated and looked on Google to answer you. I don't think you're really serious here. I think you like to play at being obtuse.
1 Timothy 5:8 “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”
Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe.”

Jesus told his disciples to arm up with swords. Sell their cloaks if they had to for the money to buy one.
What's that? Apostles carrying swords spreading the good news? Why swords if violence isn't an issue?
 

melita916

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
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I think we should make sure that if a believer isn’t a pacifist, he/she is not less saved than someone who is, and vice versa.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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I think we should make sure that if a believer isn’t a pacifist, he/she is not less saved than someone who is, and vice versa.
A believer can be mature or immature, arrogant or humble, but they should always be striving to understand better who God is and what He expects from us.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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In the Bible our Lord Jesus Christ shows us the way of light and the way perfetion, which differend in many ways from of the normal ways of mankind, or the ways of patriotism, or the way of gun protection.


How can we proclame his word to love our enemy, if we carry guns and are ready to kill our enemys? Isn't our work here is to convert our enemys to the path of righteousness, being also ready to get killed in that path? Isn't that the true way of our Lord Jesus Christ, where he is calling a man to turn and walk to receive the eternal life?
The truth is a saint is never to harm anybody, and not to offend them physically even when physically abused, and not to offend them verbally even when verbally abused.

But they are to let God handle everything for nothing can happen unless God allows it, which He said do not render evil for evil, and do not take vengeance for vengeance is mine says the Lord, I will repay.

King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon said that God rules in the kingdom of men, and gives the kingdom to who He wants to have it.

God said there is no power that can rule unless He allows it so do not go against authority for then you are going against God who allows it.

Nothing can happen unless God allows it so if a person is offended and that person prospers against them they could not do that unless God allows it, and if God allows it who are they to go against it.

Which all that shall live godly shall suffer persecution, and Paul said the saints shall go through trouble, and are killed all the day long as sheep for the slaughter.

So God is allowing them to be persecuted so why do they go against what God allows.

Which Peter cut off a servant's ear in the garden when they went to take Jesus and He said put up your sword for they that use the sword shall perish with the sword.

And Jesus said do not worry about them that can kill the body but can do no more, but fear God.

And be wise as servants, but harmless as doves.

And turn the other cheek.

And feed and clothe your enemies, and love your enemies, and do them no harm.

Nothing can happen unless God allows it and He will handle everything for the saint when people go against them whether He takes care of it there and the saint is safe, or they are judged later for their action.

They could not touch Jesus until the time has come for Him to go to the cross, and Jesus said take up your cross and follow Him which means do the purpose God has for you on this earth, which if God has a purpose for you you will not perish until that purpose is done.

But the thing is it can be hard for many people to believe they cannot defend themselves so they will take action against anybody going against them.

And some do not want to suffer physically so they will take action against them.

And some do not want to take the physical assault, or verbal assault for it hurts their pride and they do not want to appear as a wimp in the sight of others especially if you are athletic lifting weights, being involved in martial arts, and being sort of a tough person, for their attitude might be who do you think you are, and I will show you who is the toughest.

I know it can be hard to not retaliate but the Bible says do not do it for we are not to render evil for evil.

The part that I do not like is the people thinking I am a wimp for taking crap from someone for I cannot retaliate, and it would be hard for me not to protect myself, and those I love which is a good mafia tactic to get someone to comply so many people will want to protect their family and friends.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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I cheated and looked on Google to answer you. I don't think you're really serious here. I think you like to play at being obtuse.
1 Timothy 5:8 “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”
Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe.”

Jesus told his disciples to arm up with swords. Sell their cloaks if they had to for the money to buy one.
What's that? Apostles carrying swords spreading the good news? Why swords if violence isn't an issue?
How do you "Not resist evil" Matthew 5:39, by resisting it? And killing enemies instead of loving them? And then call yourself a Christian?

The two swords were necessary to have Jesus numbered with the transgressors. He rebuked Peter for using one on Malchus, cutting off his ear........
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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I cheated and looked on Google to answer you. I don't think you're really serious here. I think you like to play at being obtuse.
1 Timothy 5:8 “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”
Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe.”

Jesus told his disciples to arm up with swords. Sell their cloaks if they had to for the money to buy one.
What's that? Apostles carrying swords spreading the good news? Why swords if violence isn't an issue?

You are correct but that guy rejects scripture left and right.

I have a hard time thinking he is anything other than a troll to call a father saving his daughter from the suffering of rape, a war monger.


Definitely not someone who understands what love is. Let alone what loving your enemy is.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Why the nonresistance of evil is the only position that makes sense.

Jesus knows what he's doing when he says resist not evil and love enemies. It's the only position that makes sense if you consider the spiritual aspects.

If we die upholding his word we receive a martyr's crown so to speak. If we kill to remain alive, we not only deny him but live to die from the miseries of old age and nothing but a sin to show for it.

If you kill to prevent the death of a believer, you cheat them out of their reward along with yourself. If you prevent the death of an unbeliever, they live only to enjoy more sin for which they will suffer more in eternity. Jesus makes sense.

“For you tolerate it if anyone enslaves you, anyone devours you, anyone takes advantage of you, anyone exalts himself, anyone hits you in the face.” 2 Corinthians 11:20 (NASB95)
 
Jan 17, 2020
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You are correct but that guy rejects scripture left and right.

I have a hard time thinking he is anything other than a troll to call a father saving his daughter from the suffering of rape, a war monger.


Definitely not someone who understands what love is. Let alone what loving your enemy is.
You are judging me by your own heart when you know nothing of my past and the sacrifices I've made upholding Christ's words on non-violence. You teach against all Jesus stands for.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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You are judging me by your own heart when you know nothing of my past and the sacrifices I've made upholding Christ's words on non-violence. You teach against all Jesus stands for.
You have gone to great lengths to defend your personal choice of pacifism. That is the crux of the matter, you have chosen this path for yourself and cherry picked the Scriptures to support your view and ignore any verse that refutes it. You cannot see well enough to distinguish between your view and Gods.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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You have gone to great lengths to defend your personal choice of pacifism. That is the crux of the matter, you have chosen this path for yourself and cherry picked the Scriptures to support your view and ignore any verse that refutes it. You cannot see well enough to distinguish between your view and Gods.
I'm not a pacifist. I only obey Jesus who teaches us not to resist evil and to love enemies.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,357
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I'm not a pacifist. I only obey Jesus who teaches us not to resist evil and to love enemies.
Ok, keep up the good work. In your world can a Christian be a policeman?
Please, please, please, just answer yes or no!
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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I'm not a pacifist. I only obey Jesus who teaches us not to resist evil and to love enemies.
There is not one verse in context which implies to allow evil against the helpless, when you can stop it.

Not one.


Wrath or revenge are different than prevention or intervention.

God can use us as the body of Christ to deliver the afflicted out of the hands of the wicked.


Many verses show the opposite of what you suggest Jesus teaches, but not one would agree with you.

For example...


Matthew Chapter 5

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
_____


If you were to try to use this to back up your belief, you would need to deny what is being said in context.


This is about not letting anger turn to wrath to get even.


It is not about turning a blind eye to someone in need.

It has zero to due with some zero force rule.





vvvvv


2 timothy 3
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.




Psalms 82:3

“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”




Still applies today. Goes hand and hand with Jesus's teachings and not against them.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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There is not one verse in context which implies to allow evil against the helpless, when you can stop it.

Not one.


Wrath or revenge are different than prevention or intervention.

God can use us as the body of Christ to deliver the afflicted out of the hands of the wicked.


Many verses show the opposite of what you suggest Jesus teaches, but not one would agree with you.

For example...


Matthew Chapter 5

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
_____


If you were to try to use this to back up your belief, you would need to deny what is being said in context.


This is about not letting anger turn to wrath to get even.


It is not about turning a blind eye to someone in need.

It has zero to due with some zero force rule.





vvvvv


2 timothy 3
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.




Psalms 82:3

“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”




Still applies today. Goes hand and hand with Jesus's teachings and not against them.
You reject Christ when you reject his word. And then attack someone who believes his word and is willing to die for it. As countless thousands have throughout history. And then call yourself a Christian?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Ok, keep up the good work. In your world can a Christian be a policeman?
Please, please, please, just answer yes or no!
It's not the believer's calling. Shooting someone for stealing treasure we are not to hoard? Money is more valuable than human life? If people shared as the early church did, there would be nothing left to steal.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,357
652
113
It's not the believer's calling. Shooting someone for stealing treasure we are not to hoard? Money is more valuable than human life? If people shared as the early church did, there would be nothing left to steal.
You are an arrogant sort of fellow. No one kills for simply stealing. Are you aware that Scripture testifies that arrogance comes from fear?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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You are an arrogant sort of fellow. No one kills for simply stealing. Are you aware that Scripture testifies that arrogance comes from fear?
Why carry a gun if not meaning to kill? Are you saying thieves don't arm themselves?