Catholicism vs Protestantism

Ask a Jew. They have a list of inconsistencies between OT and NT (place where Jacob is buried, number of Jews who went to Egypt, some references of what the Prophets said are different, etc.).

Personally I'm not sure what to make of these differences.

Yep, but some catholic comit adultery so does some Protestant, but we talking about doctrine A say any manual must be test, don't believe if not consistent with A

Right, when we see an apparent huge contradiction between two books, let me know that at least one of them is not scripture.

Martin Luther, for example, saw a huge apparent contradiction between the book of James and the letters of Paul.

What does one do in that situation? Reject James? Or continue looking until one finds a resolution to the apparent contradiction?

Hi garee,

I'm not sure what your main point is. Could you summarize it for me?

Also, do you have any beliefs that are not found in the scriptures?

Yes, I understand that you do not believe there are any contradictions in the Bible.

But if someone did, and they used your method described above, it would make sense for them to disregard it, wouldn't it?

For example, Martin Luther talking about the book of James says

"In the first place it is flatly against St. Paul and all the rest of Scripture in ascribing justification to works."

http://www.bible-researcher.com/antilegomena.html

With all due respect to Martin Luther he was wrong about Paul not agreeing with James. You probably know that but are using it as a red herring.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

An excellent example!
I was once talking to a nice Jewish person on the internet and they said that neither of the two genealogies of Jesus in the New testament would qualify him to be the Messiah.

Of course, a lot of Christians will say that the Jewish people simply have their eyes blinded. A person needs the holy Spirit to open their eyes so that they can understand the scriptures.

And I would agree with that. In which case, we actually need two things: the scriptures and the holy Spirit to open our eyes to understand the scriptures.

Luke 24: 32 They said one to another, "Weren't our hearts burning within us, while he spoke to us along the way, and while he opened the Scriptures to us?"

I hope you explained to them that Jesus linage to be Messiah was based on Mary and not Joseph.

The unbeliever cannot comprehend the scriptures apart from those necessary to become saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, I am talking about doctrine as well.

Sounds good so far. How does our example of manual A correspond to the Bible? What book in the Bible is manual A that we compare all the other books to?

No, it's not a red herring.

I'm simply using Martin Luther as an example of someone who was convinced that there was a contradiction between 2 books.

So, suppose someone today saw the situation the same way that Martin Luther did.

If they used the method you described above, they would reject the book of James. Or maybe the book of Romans. That would follow wouldn't it?

Well then those who know the truth must disciple those who do not. Not make accommodation for their errors.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

In their understanding of the scriptures, the Messiah had to come through Solomon. Many people say the genealogy in Luke is Mary's. But in that genealogy, I believe the descendants are traced through Nathan, the son of David.

That's a possible explanation. At the same time, wouldn't scriptures about who is the Messiah be some of the scriptures necessary for salvation?

What would you say, then, to someone who believes there is a a contradiction between two books, at least one of which may not be scripture?

Our dear friends the Jews delight in questioning their scriptures often arguing for decades over a single jot or title. Proof the Jesus was who He claimed to be is in the resurrection.

Indeed they must believe in the resurrection. It is part of the gospel. Rome still has Jesus nailed to the cross.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If another book contradicts scripture as in the bible then the bible wins and the other book takes second place. Catholics have an unfortunate tendency to elevate what they consider writings of early church fathers to the level of biblical scripture. This is a real error on their part.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The big issues are justification by faith alone and imputed righteousness, in terms of salvation. Roman Catholicism rejects justification by faith alone and imputed righteousness. These are core salvation teachings.

Sola Scriptura is another gigantic issue. Evangelicals believe Scripture is the reliable guide to salvation. Roman Catholics believe that Scripture and the Church is the reliable guide to salvation, but that the Church is the infallible interpreter of Scripture. Therefore, a true Roman Catholic would defer to the Church in their understanding, even if the Church's teaching is counter biblical.

The Five Solas are the best way to compare Roman Catholicism with evangelical Christianity. The Solas were meant to point out issues with Roman Catholicism.

Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) vs. Scripture and Church councils, papal bulls, traditions
Solus Christus (Christ alone) vs. mediation of Christ, Mary, the Saints and the Church, works
Sola Fide (faith alone) vs. faith plus the sacraments and works
Sola Gratia (grace alone) vs. baptism and other meritorious human works
Soli Deo Gloria (God's glory alone) vs. human cooperation, veneration of Saints and Mary

However, I would criticize evangelical Christians, in some ways, of being practical Roman Catholic in their beliefs. In some sectors, they are even worse than Roman Catholics. They may believe that justification is by faith alone, for example, but they do not couple that with an understanding of union with Christ, which produces obedience through the indweling presence of Christ within the believer. Examples of this include some Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, Free Grace Movement, and churches associated with Grace Evangelical Society.

As far as whether an individual Roman Catholic is saved or not, it is possible, especially if they don't understand the Roman Catholic official teaching. I was once a cultist and I was ignorant about the teaching of justification by faith alone and imputed righteousness. I was still saved, but ignorant. I think it is possible to be saved, but ignorant. If the Roman Catholic knowingly teaches against justification by faith and imputed righteousness, though, he has rejected a core Christian truth.

I read the cult founders' books after many years, and I do not think he was saved. He knew the evangelical Christian position regarding justification by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone, but he rejected it knowingly. Therefore he depended on his own righteousness, and I believe he was lost. If he knew the concept of imputed righteousness, and knowingly rejected it, he is in no better situation than the Israelite who Paul said was forsaken in Romans 11.

It is funny how different people I respect view whether a Roman Catholic could be saved or not. One educated person said he thought the little old lady in Mexico who had a simple faith but belonged to the Roman Catholic church may be saved. Another educated person said that he thought the Roman Catholic believer who knew more theologically may be saved, because he knew more of the "truth" than the little old lady in Mexico, although he still belonged to the Roman Catholic church officially.

I am by no means sympathetic with Rome but consider it an apostate church. However, there are many evangelical churches that I consider to be in pretty bad shape, including ones that ordain gay men and women or approve of homosexuality or abortions. And, a lot of the health, wealth and prosperity churches have horrible doctrine, too.

Additionally, there are evangelical believers (although I wouldn't call them true evangelicals) who don't have the first clue about the Five Solas and their importance to us today. So, how can I fault a Roman Catholic when an evangelical may be in exactly the same position as him, practically speaking, except without the smells and bells? We have way too many ignorant Christians due to the Revivalist movement, and personal laziness.

Here's a list of good descriptions about the five solas:

https://www.gotquestions.org/five-solas.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/sola-scriptura.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/sola-gratia.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/sola-fide.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/solo-Christo.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/sola-gratia.html

For someone who wants more information, I would recommend this book:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0875526705/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_CRIHEb4D3DNGG

Regarding how we should treat one another, I don't see much value in arguing with them. I am pretty patient with Roman Catholics. I am talking with one guy who is Roman Catholic on a regular basis, and he and I have been friendly in our conversations. But, then, he knows I don't believe a lot of the ignorant Dave Hunt, Jack Chick-level propaganda about Roman Catholicism, which may or may not be true.

It discredits Christians if they believe ignorant propagandists like Dave Hunt and Jack Chick.

The Catholics confess Jesus as Savior but they have errors that are serious flaws.

They say Mary is the Queen of heaven, and the mother of God, and say she is without original sin.

They cannot exalt Mary like that for God does not give His glory to another, and she is a human like everybody which Mary confessed that she needed a Savior, and Jesus was her Savior.

Also if Mary was without original sin so that Jesus could be born sinless then using that logic Mary's mother would have to be born without original sin so Mary could be born without original sin, and then it would have to back up all the way to Adam and Eve, which we know is not true (actually no one is born with original sin for we are not blamed for their sin, but we have a choice when we are born so we are born not knowing God so we will do wrong before we do right following God).

If Mary's mother did not have to be without original sin for Mary to be without original sin, then Mary does not have to be without original sin for Jesus to be sinless.

Also Jesus is God manifest in flesh so that makes Jesus sinless not the condition of Mary except the condition she obeyed God and so she was righteous to carry the child.

Also it does not make sense for Mary would of sinned before she was pregnant with the child Jesus, so why would she have to be born without original sin if she tainted herself later on by sinning.

And when Jesus was speaking to a crowd of people the disciples said Jesus your mother and brethren are without the crowd desiring to speak to you.

But Jesus said who is my mother, and who are my brethren, and then pointed to the disciples and said behold my mother and brethren, for whoever does the will of the Father the same is my mother, brethren, and sisters.

Jesus was speaking to a group of people and a woman spoke up and said blessed is the woman that gave birth to you, but Jesus said yea rather blessed is the person that hears the word of God and does it.

So Jesus did not exalt Mary above anyone else but put her on the same level as all people.

Also Jesus said born of woman there has not arose a greater than John the Baptist for he had the Spirit from the womb, but not to save him but to give him power to live the right lifestyle to prepare the way for Jesus by getting Israel ready for His appearance.

Mary did not have the Spirit from the womb, and John is greater than Mary that was born of natural parents.

They exalt the Pope which they should not do saying he is head of the Church, and call him holy father, among other things.

But again God does not give His glory to another.

And Christ is the head of the Church, for there are many bishops, and many preachers, but there is only one who can be head of the Church and that is Christ.

Also Jesus said call no man father on earth, which you can say call your natural parent, father, but do not call anyone in a spiritual sense father, for we only have one spiritual father, and that is God, the Father, and the Pope is operating in a spiritual capacity, but of course it is false.

Which they should not be calling the priests father for they claim to be operating in a spiritual capacity in the Church.

Also a man called Jesus good, and Jesus said why call me good, for there is only one that is good, and that is God, which the man approached Jesus according to His humanity so the man Christ Jesus is saying I am doing good for the Father is causing me to do good giving God the glory, for if the man would of said that to Jesus acknowledging His deity then Jesus would of said He is good.

So that is a double whammy calling the Pope holy father.

People cannot exalt people like that concerning the Church for God said what makes you to differ from another, and God is no respecter of persons, and if you think you are something when you are nothing you deceive yourself.

These are serious errors because God does not give His glory to another.

Also God said to not make idols of anything on earth, in the heaven, or in the sea, but they have a statue of Mary in which some people bow down to it which is wrong and a serious error.

It is obvious that when the Roman Empire started going by Christianity, and the Bible, that they did not get rid of their occult, and pagan ways, but held unto them and it became their foundation for the interpreting of scriptures.

Which others have done the same thing like Joseph Smith that had a belief that was not part of the Bible, and it became his foundation for the interpreting of scriptures, and the new age movement that has the foundation of the occult, and evolution, and that became their foundation for interpreting scriptures which is the worse interpretation of all for it will lead the world to following the New Age Christ, man of sin.

Which is why the Catholic Church is so wrong in interpreting scriptures because they have an improper foundation, and why the Pope and the Vatican will start going by the new age movement in the future when the New Age Christ starts pushing the new age movement in the world to try to get it to be popular so he can claim to be God by evolving to be greater and spiritual, for their foundation is occult and pagan.

Also they confess their sins to a priest who acts like a mediator between them and God, but there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

This is a very serious error and would their sins be forgiven if they do not take them to God but go through the priest, for then they are ignoring that only the man Christ Jesus is the mediator.

Infant baptism for original sin, but we do not have original sin for that is not our sin but Adam and Eve's sin, and a person has to realize they do wrong at the age of accountability before they would be baptized.

And the Catholic Church does many works that are not even required for salvation and have a pagan way about them, and they say tradition is equal to the word of God.

But how can tradition be equal to the word of God when everything that God wanted us to know and beneficial for us to be right with Him is already in the Bible, and tradition testifies that it is not in the Bible, for if it were in the Bible they would not claim it as tradition for obviously they say it is tradition because it is not in the Bible.

Again errors, which the Catholic Church has errors upon errors that are numerous because they interpret the Bible according to the occult, and paganism.

But the Catholics do love God, and will they be able to plead ignorance if they say they could not come to that understanding, but many know what the Bible says but ignore it, and the leaders will surely not escape.

Since the Roman Catholic Church is of pagan and occult ways then they are in error.

Continued,

Continued,

I believe when Jesus addressed the 7 Churches in Asia that they might have been actual Churches, but it seems like they would not be so diverse at that time in what they believed, but it is for sure a prophetic statement to how the Church age will go as far as popular influence on people at the time they operated, and if any flaws God always has people in the truth no matter the time period.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Although they were in error here when the Church started they were not so bad but had a lot of good ways about them, which they started off loving but they left their first love which might mean they did not love people like they should which is probably they were starting to neglect the poor and needy, which at the first they took great care to help the poor and needy, for the leaving the first love is not leaving Jesus.

This was the popular influence at that time.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

This is the second Church which seems like it would be the Roman Catholic Church when it stated being a big influence upon people for the Roman Empire ruled at that time, and their foundation is the occult and pagan.

Which the Roman Catholic Church ruled during the 3rd and 4th Church but added deception to the Church as they went along.

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

I believe this is the Protestant movement becoming popular and a big influence that broke from the Catholic Church realizing their errors, for we do not see any great deception going on here except the saints lifestyle was not perfect before God but still in good shape and can quickly correct their errors especially since this can be done on a individual level without the influence of leaders pushing certain doctrines on the people like the Catholic Church that would persecute those that opposed.

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The Protestant movement became better at being Christlike, and correcting errors and they continually weeded out all the doctrines of the Catholic Church, and preaching the truth, although people could see the truth all through the Church history, but they would be smaller groups that did not have a major influence until later on, and this is the first Church that Jesus did not have anything against them.

Jesus said He will make those of the synagogue of Satan to come worship before the saints in the truth.

Which if we look at all the Church age and who had much influence over people it can only apply to the Roman Catholic Church.

And do not let the term, who say they are Jews, cause you to believe it is Jews according to the flesh, but this is talking of a Church age where that belief system had a major influence upon people at that time.

And we know that the Jews were scattered in to the nations at that point so they could not have a major influence upon people, and also the majority of Jews did not accept Jesus to have a major influence upon people.

Which a Gentile when saved becomes a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel, so God views them as Jews, so they were saying they were Jews, saved, but they lie because of the deception of their beliefs.

This Church age is now, for Jesus said He will deliver the saints in the truth from the temptation that shall come upon the whole world to try all them that dwell on earth.

Which there can only be one temptation that can come upon all people at the same time, and that is when the world says Peace and safety, as the nations come together and work for peace on earth, but it is not the operation of God, and they will soon rebel against God.

Which the world will have a decision to make whether to stay with God, get with God, or follow the world, which Paul said the saints will not be deceived by it knowing it is not of God, and Jesus will deliver them from that temptation to believe that it is the right course of action for peace in the world, and their prosperity, but they will know it is of the New Age Christ, man of sin, which the devil is trying to deceive the world.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Then we get to the last Church age that is popular in influence, and since we have technology and know what our nation, and the world is doing we can see that this is true.

That many will want to enjoy money, and material things for their wants, heaping money to themselves which the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

And they will enjoy fleshy pleasures, and worldliness like the world, although many will tone it down, but a little leaven leavens the whole bunch, and toned down sin is still sin.

Which the Bible says some are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

And we know of greedy preachers, and the prosperity Gospel causing people to believe that God blesses them with their wants.

The Catholic Church is quite the mess of the things they believe and do, and their foundation is of the occult and pagan.

The Protestant movement for many have a hypocritical lifestyle, and will not entirely give up the flesh, but many correct it especially as they grow in Christ, and like at the 6th Church many are doing right and Jesus did not have anything to say against them but to hold on to the truth.

Talking about doctrine, it is different because the text book are different, for example Protestant do not include apocrypha catholic do

About example manual correspondence to the Bible

Morning Consecration to Mary

My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.

Offer the whole being to mary is not biblical teaching