Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#131,261
Jul 31, 2013
37,849
13,562
113
#131,261
lightbearer said:
How pompous.
Click to expand...

that part ↑

you don't seem to be able to speak to me without insults.
i'm wondering if you think it is God in you?

from what i remember of His teachings, you seem to be condemning yourself every time you reply to me. am wondering whether you see that, or whether you think you're 'bringing light' when this is what comes out of you?
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#131,263
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#131,263
mailmandan said:
Believers are new creations in Christ and if we claim to be saved, yet there is no change in us at all according to what Christ does in us, then we are not saved to begin with and never were.

Romans 10:5 - For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, "Who will descend into the abyss?" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
Click to expand...
Who is the Judge whether or not someone is saved and is believing, even if WE PERCEIVE that we are living according to this change. God or us? Can are own heart deceive us?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#131,264
Apr 7, 2014
25,499
13,436
113
58
#131,264
lightbearer said:
Who is the Judge whether or not someone is saved and is believing, even if WE PERCEIVE that we are living according to this change. God or us? Can are own heart deceive us?
Click to expand...
Ultimately, God is the judge, but God did not leave believers in the dark in regards to having assurance of salvation, although there are people who certainly are deceived.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. :)
 
walknlight

walknlight

Member
#131,265
Nov 17, 2017
595
409
63
#131,265
lightbearer said:
They repented and so must we.
Click to expand...
As them being our example, we see that they did miss the mark over their lifetime, several times
BUT GOD, kept them in His hand. JUSTIFIED by faith, surely not because of what they did.
lightbearer said:
If we die in our sins or sin we are lost.
Click to expand...
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
In this context, not believing who Yeshua is

Yeshua (Jesus) is God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#131,266
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#131,266
posthuman said:
that part ↑

you don't seem to be able to speak to me without insults.
i'm wondering if you think it is God in you?

from what i remember of His teachings, you seem to be condemning yourself every time you reply to me. am wondering whether you see that, or whether you think you're 'bringing light' when this is what comes out of you?
Click to expand...
IT IS.
Can't see yourself can ya?
Through your wit You said I was a big fan of specks and planks.

posthuman said:
i see you are a big fan of specks & planks?

let me introduce you to a Carpenter...
Click to expand...
posthuman said:
yes, slander.
the part where, when i speak about Christ, you accuse me of 'thinking my intellect and wit is going to get me somewhere'
Click to expand...
YOU DO
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#131,267
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#131,267
walknlight said:
As them being our example, we see that they did miss the mark over their lifetime, several times
BUT GOD, kept them in His hand. JUSTIFIED by faith, surely not because of what they did.


John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
In this context, not believing who Yeshua is

Yeshua (Jesus) is God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Click to expand...
They repented. If they had not they would not have been saved. And unless we repent from our sins through God we will not and are not saved.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#131,268
Apr 7, 2014
25,499
13,436
113
58
#131,268
Micaiah-imla said:
But it’s saddening how some on the OSAS side talk to others with such hateful contempt. Truly grieving to my spirit. Imagine how this must grieve the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
It’s a two way street. I’ve heard people on the NOSAS side say that OSAS is of the devil and accuse OSAS believers of promoting a license to sin and being blinded by the god of this world and being ignorant and stubborn and not understanding the depth of wickedness they dwell in. :(
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#131,269
#131,269
Bbrdrd said:
It doesn't seem to go against Biblical teachings so much as it takes some too far. We can have security in our salvation because it relies not on what we do but who we are. Yet OSAS takes the security we have in Christ a step further and insists that the mere act of placing your faith in Christ for a single moment is enough for salvation, rather than recognizing that it is a life of the obedience of faith. There is ample evidence that those who are saved have no reason to fear for their salvation because Christ is the author and perfecter of the faith that is justifying us. It is a past, present, and future reality yet some will begin to walk in the way and will fall away. Still, the solution is not to argue and dispute but to encourage those who are walking after the faith to continue walking after the faith, to run the race as if to win a prize. Focus on Jesus and you'll be alright.
Click to expand...
Salvation is a gift.... it is not earned based on a life of obedience.

And yes one "born from above" .. occurs in a moment in time.
 
walknlight

walknlight

Member
#131,270
Nov 17, 2017
595
409
63
#131,270
lightbearer said:
They repented.If they had not they would not have been saved.
Click to expand...
They were justified before they did their deeds, not after they repented.
By FAITH they were justified. God justifies. There is/was nothing they or we can or could do to nullify this.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#131,271
Jul 31, 2013
37,849
13,562
113
#131,271
lightbearer said:
If we die in our sins or sin we are lost.
Click to expand...
this is how not to:

You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.​
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.​
(John 8:23-24)​
​
believe that He is I AM
be from above. how? He must give you birth; you cannot crawl back into the womb yourself.
how, then? believe that HE IS
Salvation is free, not of works, lest anyone should be justified to boast.

I AM the resurrection and the life. ​
He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live, ​
and whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.​
(John 11:25-26)​
​
what do you think, is this the Serpent saying 'you will not surely die' ?
or is this I AM saying if you will believe and trust Him, you shall have life, and have it more abundantly?

Do you believe this? ​
(John 11:26)​
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#131,272
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#131,272
mailmandan said:
Ultimately, God is the judge, but God did not leave believers in the dark in regards to having assurance of salvation, although there are people who certainly are deceived.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. :)
Click to expand...
Amen!
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
For we know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. The ways of this world and our love for it.
(1Jn 3:5-8; 5:1-5)
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#131,274
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#131,274
walknlight said:
They were justified before they did their deeds, not after they repented.
By FAITH they were justified. God justifies. There is/was nothing they or we can or could do to nullify this.
Click to expand...
If we live a life of sin after we come to God without repenting we are not saved anymore or were not saved in the first place.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#131,275
#131,275
Bbrdrd said:
It doesn't seem to go against Biblical teachings so much as it takes some too far. We can have security in our salvation because it relies not on what we do but who we are. Yet OSAS takes the security we have in Christ a step further and insists that the mere act of placing your faith in Christ for a single moment is enough for salvation, rather than recognizing that it is a life of the obedience of faith. There is ample evidence that those who are saved have no reason to fear for their salvation because Christ is the author and perfecter of the faith that is justifying us. It is a past, present, and future reality yet some will begin to walk in the way and will fall away. Still, the solution is not to argue and dispute but to encourage those who are walking after the faith to continue walking after the faith, to run the race as if to win a prize. Focus on Jesus and you'll be alright.
Click to expand...
This post has some very contradictory statements.:unsure:

The gift of salvation is never "quid pro quo."
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#131,277
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#131,277
lightbearer said:
Who is the Judge whether or not someone is saved and is believing, even if WE PERCEIVE that we are living according to this change. God or us? Can are own heart deceive us?
Click to expand...
posthuman said:
what does this saying mean?

if our hearts condemn us, He is greater than our hearts ​
​
​
Click to expand...
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
(Jer 17:9-10 KJV)

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(Mat 7:21-23 KJV)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#131,278
Jul 31, 2013
37,849
13,562
113
#131,278
lightbearer said:
If we live a life of sin after we come to God without repenting we are not saved anymore or were not saved in the first place.
Click to expand...
given that salvation is a supernatural work God, by grace through faith, not of works, a work begun by God whose arm is not short and whose hand no one can stay, which is more likely -
  1. that He shrugs His shoulders and goes *meh* never loved that 1 lost sheep anyway
  2. that we were talking about a goat, not a sheep at all?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#131,279
Jul 31, 2013
37,849
13,562
113
#131,279
lightbearer said:
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
(Jer 17:9-10 KJV)

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(Mat 7:21-23 KJV)
Click to expand...
what does this saying mean -

if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts
​
?​
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#131,280
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#131,280
lightbearer said:
If we live a life of sin after we come to God without repenting we are not saved anymore or were not saved in the first place.
Click to expand...
EleventhHour said:
Here we go.....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
How vain you are. You are another one. Roll your eyes and slap your head as if you know something or this is a joke. The smugness of it all.
All look how many likes I got for being pompous. Oh gee look at me.


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(Mat 7:21-23 KJV)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.