Catholicism vs Protestantism

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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1 interpretation vs guidance

A. I interprate Bible, mean I use my ability to understand bible

B. Holy spirit guid me to understand bible, mean the credit is for the Holy Spirit not me

A I interprate

B. Holy spirit interprate for me
Okay, we can use your wording.


So, do you believe that the holy Spirit interprets the Bible for you individually and personally as you read it?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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My brother, I don't know everything about Christian, thoug I am Christian all my life.

My church never talk About salvation without confessing Christ.

But like I say, there are a verse in the bible talk about People that are never hear the gospel Will have different judgement, but I don't know If It mean there is posibility for save.

Special judgement can be lighter sentence, but not go to heaven, or It may go to heaven, I don't know.

But I believe I am Christian, because I believe in Jesus
Well, if you don't know about whether a person who has never heard about Jesus can be saved, then logically you cannot criticize someone who has an answer one way or the other, because they might be correct.

Do you follow what I'm saying there?


I agree that you are a Christian because you believe in Jesus. Would you agree that everyone is a Christian who believes in Jesus?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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You mean a person never hear about Jesus?

I don't know

But a person never hear about church as long as believe in Jesus Will save.
Well, the church is the body of Christ on Earth. And it looks to me like in Paul's presentation of the basic gospel, he includes believers like Peter and the apostles, which would be the church, the body of Christ.


1 Corinthians 15: 1 Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep.


I agree that everyone who believes in Jesus is saved. Of course, this kind of raises the question of what a person needs to believe about Jesus in order to be saved.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I see. In your view, the Catholic leaders who wrote documents like lumen gentium know they are lying and they are evil.


I don't think it's a good idea to project your unwillingness to read the whole story onto other people. Many people have read the whole story and have decided to remain with or join the Catholic Church.
Just like when we discuss about salvation. Most of us only use some verse.

And If you know many catholic read the whole story, I like to hear what is they take oN lumen gentium II /16/126
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Well, if you don't know about whether a person who has never heard about Jesus can be saved, then logically you cannot criticize someone who has an answer one way or the other, because they might be correct.

Do you follow what I'm saying there?


I agree that you are a Christian because you believe in Jesus. Would you agree that everyone is a Christian who believes in Jesus?
I know for sure if one believe in Jesus will be save.

That what the Word say.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Okay, we can use your wording.


So, do you believe that the holy Spirit interprets the Bible for you individually and personally as you read it?
Holy Spirit help me to understand.

John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I believe this promise is for every individual

Do you believe this promise only for apostle or elder?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Well, the church is the body of Christ on Earth. And it looks to me like in Paul's presentation of the basic gospel, he includes believers like Peter and the apostles, which would be the church, the body of Christ.


1 Corinthians 15: 1 Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep.


I agree that everyone who believes in Jesus is saved. Of course, this kind of raises the question of what a person needs to believe about Jesus in order to be saved.
Good question.

Paul say about Jesus die for our sin and another verse say that Jesus is a savior etc

So what we need to believe about Jesus?

We have to believe His teaching.
 
Well, the church is the body of Christ on Earth. And it looks to me like in Paul's presentation of the basic gospel, he includes believers like Peter and the apostles, which would be the church, the body of Christ.


1 Corinthians 15: 1 Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep.


I agree that everyone who believes in Jesus is saved. Of course, this kind of raises the question of what a person needs to believe about Jesus in order to be saved.
Just elieved that you are a sinner, and Jesus died for your sins, your soul will DEFINATELY be saved;)
 
Believed and practice in Jesus's teachings is the second step of being saved. It is not easy, a long the way we might fail but it is alright, ask for forgiveness and repent and continue the journey until the final days:).
 

Jackson123

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he includes believers like Peter and the apostles, which would the church, the body of Christ
Do you believe only Jesus a savior and only Jesus pay the penalty of our sin, or Jesus and Peter and Paul pay the penalty if our sin?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I believe Jesus, not the church is a savior, people may don't agree with my church, as long as he agree with the teaching of Jesus will be save.
 
I believe Jesus, not the church is a savior, people may don't agree with my church, as long as he agree with the teaching of Jesus will be save.
I think everyone in this chat room believes in Jesus like you but with different doctrine don't know from where:)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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My brother, I don't know everything about Christian, thoug I am Christian all my life.

My church never talk About salvation without confessing Christ.

But like I say, there are a verse in the bible talk about People that are never hear the gospel Will have different judgement, but I don't know If It mean there is possibility for save.

Special judgement can be lighter sentence, but not go to heaven, or It may go to heaven, I don't know.

But I believe I am Christian, because I believe in Jesus
We know as he gives us his understanding that works in us it does not come from us . We previously had no way of hearing God. The gospel gave us the proper tools The hearing of his faith, to believe Him not seen. The hearing of his faith, is the first work of his love that works in us till the end.

No special judgement like limbo or purgatory. Mercy is the special judgement that releases us from the bondage of sin
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I think everyone in this chat room believes in Jesus like you but with different doctrine don't know from where:)
But catholic believe the church is the body of Christ so to be save you have to believe in church and the only Christ church is catholic

Lumen gentium II/14

14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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We know as he gives us his understanding that works in us it does not come from us . We previously had no way of hearing God. The gospel gave us the proper tools The hearing of his faith, to believe Him not seen. The hearing of his faith, is the first work of his love that works in us till the end.

No special judgement like limbo or purgatory. Mercy is the special judgement that releases us from the bondage of sin
We are talking about romans 2:12-16

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Just like when we discuss about salvation. Most of us only use some verse.

And If you know many catholic read the whole story, I like to hear what is they take oN lumen gentium II /16/126
Sure thing! Here's an example of something written by someone who has "read the whole story".


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/o...ally-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church

"A Catholic Contradiction?


Perhaps the one paragraph in the CCC used more than any other to “prove” Catholics contradict themselves with regard to this the doctrine “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” is paragraph 841, which is given to us under the heading: “The Church’s Relationship with the Muslims” "


And then he talks about the passage in lumen gentium.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Holy Spirit help me to understand.

John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I believe this promise is for every individual

Do you believe this promise only for apostle or elder?
I don't think it's only for apostles or elders. But I'm not sure if it means only individuals, or only the group, or both..
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Good question.

Paul say about Jesus die for our sin and another verse say that Jesus is a savior etc

So what we need to believe about Jesus?

We have to believe His teaching.
Yes, I agree with believe the teaching of Jesus.


Jesus taught a lot of things. Do you have to believe every single one of them to be saved?


And do you have to believe them a particular way? Here's what I mean:

Matthew 5: 18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished.

I'm sure you've met people here on CC that take this to mean that Jesus taught that we are to keep the law. But other people disagree. Is this a teaching of Jesus that we have to believe in a particular way in order to be saved?


Another example

Mark 16: 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it will in no way hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Have you heard of snake handlers here in the USA? Taking up the snake?

That's not something a person has to believe to be saved, imo. And many people don't actually believe that is a teaching of Jesus, but that it was added later.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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We are talking about romans 2:12-16

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Are you considering the letter of the law as it is written special judgement or the judgement ?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
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Sure thing! Here's an example of something written by someone who has "read the whole story".


https://www.catholic.com/magazine/o...ally-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church
I
"A Catholic Contradiction?


Perhaps the one paragraph in the CCC used more than any other to “prove” Catholics contradict themselves with regard to this the doctrine “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” is paragraph 841, which is given to us under the heading: “The Church’s Relationship with the Muslims” "


And then he talks about the passage in lumen gentium.
Quote

To get a clear picture, let’s begin with the necessity of salvation in Jesus Christ. In the Gospel of St. John, and in the very next chapter after Jesus makes his famous statement, “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me” (John 14:6), which I quoted above, this same Jesus also said, “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin” (John 15:22; see also John 9:41). Jesus presents a very important principle here: a person is not responsible for what they could not have known. The implication is that it is possible to have a salvific link with Christ without knowing him formally. If this is so, and it is, according to Scripture, then it stands to reason that in the same way, one can have a salvific relationship with the Church without knowing the truth that the Church is the fullness of Christ on this earth (see also the case of Cornelius the centurion in Acts 10:1-4, 34-35).

What I mean by a “formal relationship” with the Church is that a person has been formally baptized into Christ and has made a profession of faith in the one, true faith of the Catholic Church (assuming he has reached the age of accountability). However, a person can possibly have a salvific link with Christ and his Church in various ways, some of which are known to God alone. This can be via the valid sacraments they may have, e.g., all seven with the Orthodox, or two with Protestants (baptism and matrimony). Or, it may be via what the Council fathers called “the images and shadows” of truth that the various world religions possess. Indeed, even “those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to lead a good life” will not be denied by Divine Providence what the Council fathers called “the helps necessary for salvation” (Lumen Gentium,16).

Quote

From the link you give me I quote this part

Basically catholic believe the only true church is catholic, so only member of catholic save.

But for people that don't know it may save.

Same problem

Why Vatican say Muslim save because worship abraham god?

Lumen g do not say : Muslim that don't know catholic save

Anyway what is the definition of know Catholics?

Almost every body on earth know Catholic Church

Is read about catholic mean know catholic

I have to say sorry not offend but in fact the more I read about catholic the more I convince that catholic work for lucifer.

Out of love I advice you brother, pray more and consider come to Jesus not catholic

The teaching and catholic big project NWO is directly against Jesus.