Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
In my last sentence I cited James 2:14,26. I don't believe there is any contradiction in scripture. James was highlighting anyone with genuine faith will have works to go with it. By way of example even Satan and the demons have faith in God. Are they guaranteed salvation based on their faith? Far from it for they work in opposition to God. So surely works do count?
Faith in God?
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,265
1,419
113
That's what we sweetly told the Sunday school children but its partly true, which is false. It is written, it is written, it is written that He appeared to destroy the works of the Devil (sin) - to set us free from his and its control - and to baptize us with His Holy Spirit. The point is for Him to become our King and for us to truly lay down our lives (souls) and no longer do our will but His.

When His Kingdom comes, His will is being done.
What do you believe about Jesus? What do you believe about salvation? Do you believe you need to be perfect/sinless to be saved?
 
Nov 24, 2019
395
196
43
Virginia
www.youtube.com
John 8:34-36.
I believe that you have NOT sufficiently answered my questions and now you are basically telling me that I can’t hear because I’m lost and you also have a big problem with the western Christian church. Who are you to judge me and the Church? Do you claim to be a prophet?
This is enjoyable. "Christianity vs. the Kingdom of God", indeed.

Properly understood, salvation is a change of government: from under Satan to under Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit. That is a central thing He showed us in Exodus. Christ is our Passover, we apply the blood, our slavery was to sin, we came through the waters of baptism and have received the baptism with the Holy Spirit - which is why John said He came - and now He is our Lord, Head over all things to us. The sons of God are those who are being led by the Spirit of God.

Whoever has a problem with the proceeding paragraph has the spirit of antichrist at work within them.

Jesus didn't come to start Christianity. Denominations are a work of the flesh, which those who belong to Christ have crucified, as it is written. A problem with the Christian church is its millions of heads.
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
If he knows who will be saved from the beginning of time why would he do that?
Scripture is clear.

We are warned to not be high minded, but fear. Because if we do not continue in his goodness we can also be cut off like the unbelieving Jews were (Romans 11:22).

We are warned to continue in the faith grounded and settled and not to be moved away or else we will not be presented holy, unblameable, and unreprovable in his sight (Colossians 1:22-23).

We are warned that no man having put his hand to plow and looking back is fit for kingdom (Luke 9:62).

IF a man keep my saying, he shall never see death (John 8:51).

It’s not about God’s abilities, it’s about our decision to surrender all to him and follow in obedience to righteousness.

If you cannot see how the scripture is against OSAS, I can only pray your eyes will be opened someday.
 
Apr 19, 2020
64
22
8
Worth considering words of Jesus at Matthew 7:21. Who would be the ones who say Lord Lord? Certainly ones who have faith right? Notice how Jesus stressed ‘doing’ the will of his Father as the qualifying factor for entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. Just saying we believe is not enough. Our faith needs to be supported by works.

Jesus went further in Matthew 7:23 when he said he would declare he never knew certain ones who profess faith in him. Why? After emphasising works are required, he is also stressing those works need to be in accord with his Fathers will. Otherwise ones who profess faith in him could be rejected by him.

Another proof the scriptures do not support OSAS.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Worth considering words of Jesus at Matthew 7:21. Who would be the ones who say Lord Lord? Certainly ones who have faith right? Notice how Jesus stressed ‘doing’ the will of his Father as the qualifying factor for entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. Just saying we believe is not enough. Our faith needs to be supported by works.

Jesus went further in Matthew 7:23 when he said he would declare he never knew certain ones who profess faith in him. Why? After emphasising works are required, he is also stressing those works need to be in accord with his Fathers will. Otherwise ones who profess faith in him could be rejected by him.

Another proof the scriptures do not support OSAS.
They were professing faith?
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
Nice try, Whiteskin.

"It is written that He appeared to destroy the works of the Devil (sin) - to set us free from his and its control - and to baptize us with His Holy Spirit. The point is for Him to become our King and for us to truly lay down our lives (souls) and no longer do our will but His.

When His Kingdom comes, His will is being done."

"I've said it explicitly many times before on this thread and The Way, Which Gospel and My Conversion."

Just b/c your ears (and heart) are uncircumcised too, it ain't my fault. Death and resurrection. It isn't complicated. Which king's will do you do?
Stay off the drugs, son.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,208
113
Worth considering words of Jesus at Matthew 7:21. Who would be the ones who say Lord Lord? Certainly ones who have faith right? Notice how Jesus stressed ‘doing’ the will of his Father as the qualifying factor for entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. Just saying we believe is not enough. Our faith needs to be supported by works.

Jesus went further in Matthew 7:23 when he said he would declare he never knew certain ones who profess faith in him. Why? After emphasising works are required, he is also stressing those works need to be in accord with his Fathers will. Otherwise ones who profess faith in him could be rejected by him.

Another proof the scriptures do not support OSAS.

Impossible for it to be evidence scripture doesn't support eternal security because HE said HE never knew them to those who say "lord lord" but then point to their "many wonderful works".

Every single verse I've seen people try to use to mean some of God's children eventually are thrown into the lake of fire, when viewed in proper context, say no such thing.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,208
113
I meant if He finds them dead as in dead in unbelief.
Saving faith can't be destroyed, it's like being able to stop believing we have been born.

We are new, and know we are His.

This is by His power and His mercy and we are grateful.

He literally abides in us. He won't leave us. We hear Him and when we don't follow we are chastened as children, but we hear. Not like before when we were enemies and dead in unbelief. We have been "quickened" already but do not yet see what we shall be.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
Probably because he sees Christians as tainted - say it taint so.
Imagine that; he sees us Christians for who and what we are, tainted and in need of Jesus Christ, our Savior. Funny how that works. Problem is, he doesn’t see his own taint.