Tithing

Worship bands get salaries? I gotta join your church!

ok ok that was a guess lol -- OP was at Hillsong UK. what would you guess, their 'worship leader' received a check, or no?

That wasn't me. I read your comments, and hold to what Scripture actually states on this matter; nothing.

I'd like to use my first post to seek outside counsel on the subject of tithing.

I'm still waiting for some "spoils" View attachment 215026

While I was at the Church I had the confidence to put my head above the parapet and directly challenge the prosperity gospel teaching of the Church.

Yep, its an argument from silence.

I take it this way, God sowed his son while I am still a sinner, and reap an entire Body of Christ. (Romans 5:8)

Thus, he is a generous giver, and since I am created in God's image, whenever I give, I reflect his DNA in me.

Yes, but giving and tithing are not the same thing. This is exactly what the OP's note to the church leadership identified.

As long as you use the term, "tithing" you cannot separate it from the OT commandment, which was not optional and is not binding on Christians. It only confuses people. Better to use the term for voluntary contributions: giving. No baggage, no obligation, no confusion.

I find that when Christians are arguing against the concept of "tithing", it is very rare that they actually want to "give" more than 10%. Usually their objective is to confirm their bias which is "can I get away with giving less than 10%"?

I mean, if they are trying to argue that we should give more than 10%, then really, I doubt any church actually care that they rather call it giving than tithing.

Just treat that 10% as the minimum to do so, if you feel you should go beyond that, that's great.

I find that people who want to impose their view of tithing on others typically employ this argument. It sounds so nice, so gentle, so liberating, and it's unmitigated manipulative c**p. There is no biblical basis for treating 10% as the minimum under the new covenant.

Nothing wrong with supporting a Church that you attend for the purposes of helping them keep the building in decent condition and the utilities paid...

Good day everyone,

Thank you for accepting me on to your website.

I'd like to use my first post to seek outside counsel on the subject of tithing.

I used to attend a Hillsong Church here in the UK, but left partly due to my not being able to reconcile their teaching with my own research of the Bible.

While I was at the Church I had the confidence to put my head above the parapet and directly challenge the prosperity gospel teaching of the Church.

I forwarded a document (attached) to somebody in the Church that outlined my opinions on tithing, backed up by Bible research.
I received the same document back with comments (also attached).

I would appreciate any feedback or comment.

The argument that they're employing here is that because God gave us his son, we should 'give God our money'.
This is an astonishingly weak argument, but is absolutely typical of the charismatic brigade who would have you believe that tithing is a requirement of your faith in Jesus.

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Mal. 3

“8 Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me. But you say, Wherein have we robbed You? In Tithes and offerings. (The question, “Will a man rob God?”, is blunt and to the point; it instantly portrayed Israel’s present condition, in that they had, in fact, robbed God! “Yet you have robbed Me!” proclaims unequivocally that they had robbed God, which is a serious charge indeed!

The question, “But you say, Wherein have we robbed You?”, brings back the quick answer through the Prophet, “In Tithes and offerings.” Some claim that “tithes” are a part of the old Mosaic system and are not applicable under the New Covenant! However, paying tithes was practiced long before the Law [Gen. 14:20; 28:22]; it was also commanded under Grace in the New Testament [Mat. 23:23; Rom. 2:22; I Cor. 9:7-14; 16:2; Gal. 6:6; Heb. 7:1-10].

Abraham, a type of all Believers, paid tithes to Melchizedek, a Type of Christ [Gen. 14:20], which sets the standard; inasmuch as we are children of Abraham, we are to continue to pay tithes to the Work of God, which, in effect, is the propagation of the Message of Christ and Him Crucified [Gal. 3:6-7; I Cor. 1:23].)

9 You are cursed with a curse: for you have robbed Me, even this whole nation. (“You are cursed with a curse,” is dire indeed! The effect of this curse was scarcity and barrenness, as we see from Verses 10 through 12. Robbing God of tithes and offerings brings a curse. These belong to God by virtue of Covenant agreements with man; to use them for personal gain is robbery of that which rightly belongs to Him.
The phrase, “For you have robbed Me, even this whole nation,” proclaims the reason for the poverty, among other things, of the nations of the world.)

“10 Bring you all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in My House, and prove Me now herewith, says the LORD of Hosts, if I will not open you the Windows of Heaven, and pour you out a Blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. (“Bring you all the tithes into the storehouse,” referred to the Temple and cities of the Levites under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, it refers to the place where one’s soul is fed, wherever that might be. Some have claimed that the local Church is the “storehouse” where all giving is to be brought; however, that is incorrect, inasmuch as those who propose such fail to understand what “Church” actually is! “Church” is made up of all members of the Body of Christ, irrespective of who they are or where they are. It has nothing to do with the building, organization, or religious institution. It is the “Message” which must be supported — not an institution.

The phrase, “That there may be meat in My House,” has reference to the support of the Priesthood in the Temple of old. The Lord has no such “house” at present, because Jesus fulfilled all that the ancient Temple represented, with Him now residing through the agency of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and lives of all Believers [I Cor. 3:16].

“And prove Me now herewith, says the LORD of Hosts,” presents a challenge presented by the Lord for men to prove Him regarding the rewards of tithing. “If I will not open you the Windows of Heaven, and pour you out a Blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it,” speaks of a superabundant amount. The same phrase, “Windows of Heaven,” is used in Gen. 7:11 regarding the flood; therefore, we are speaking of Blessings unparalleled!)

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, sa ys the LORD of Hosts. (In the first phrase, the Holy Spirit uses the word “devourer”; then, He uses the pronoun “he,” symbolizing a personality behind the destruction, i.e., Satan. As well, the word “rebuke” means “to turn back” or “keep down.”

So, if we fail to give to God, the Lord proclaims that He will not turn back the “devourer.” This will result in the “fruits” of our efforts being destroyed. To give to God means the opposite. Crops will be abundant, with efforts resulting in prosperity.

The last phrase simply speaks of the harvest being gathered, and abundantly so, and not being lost.)

12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for you shall be a delightsome land, says the LORD of Hosts. (The first phrase speaks of the Blessings of the Lord as being so abundant that other nations will enquire as to the reason.)”

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://books.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870
This material may be protected by copyright.

You forgot to use the term "love" in your argument. As Paul would say, if you don't give out of love, there is no point giving.

Love cannot be forced, its not a requirement.

With all due respect you're now exhibiting needless pedantry and circumnavigating the point of this thread.

Are you suggesting that tithing is still a requirement for modern day Christians, yes or no?