So many anti charismatic smear jobs allowed?

I would suggest the church Fathers understood the term also " in the name of " that is an ole English term coined to ask one " by what authority do you do this or who sent you?

If you hear ''sarcastic'' then you have been barking up the wrong tree imo
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

I am not sure I understand your question but the definition of the word saved has nothing to do with Webster but eh context of the Authorial intent Found where it is used contextually from the Greek word of the Hebrew word for "saved"

in the Greek "saved" is sōtēria from the context in Roman 10:9-10
means: deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

it is in verse 13 of Roman 10 which says :

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The word saved here is Sozo in the Greek which means: to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction

The wording Shall be saved means They will be saved all those who Call on the name of Jesus. It is absolute. not a possibility.

I am not sure I understand your question but the definition of the word saved has nothing to do with Webster but eh context of the Authorial intent Found where it is used contextually from the Greek word of the Hebrew word for "saved"

in the Greek "saved" is sōtēria from the context in Roman 10:9-10
means: deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

it is in verse 13 of Roman 10 which says :

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The word saved here is Sozo in the Greek which means: to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction

The wording Shall be saved means They will be saved all those who Call on the name of Jesus. It is absolute. not a possibility.

I haven't looked to see if it is Sozo in 1 Peter 3:20. Some people seem to think a person should be termed "saved" before they receive the Holy Ghost.

My point has to do with the fact that the word "saved" can mean eternal but it doesn't eliminate man's ability to choose and to mess it up, so to speak.

For example, when God Saved people from the bond age of Egypt, how long was God saving them for? (In other words, for what length of time was he bringing them out of bondage?) ANSWER: Forever! Eternally.

But did they find a way to mess that up? Yes they did.

And did some end up going from that forever/eternal deliverance into actual destruction? Yes. (Think Dathan and Abiram)

And to those very adults that he brought out of Egypt (also including Dathan and Abiram) did not God give a binding promise that he was going to bring them into the promised land? Yes he did. But even with an absolute promise from God, did MOST of them fail to reach the promised land? Yep.

And does God warn us not to be like Dathan and Abiram (as if it is possible for us to repeat their mistakes)? Yes he does.

And does God also warn us not to repeat the behavior of those who failed to reach that absolutely guaranteed promised land (as if repeating it would produce a similar outcome) ? Yes, indeed he does.

As long as we are in this life, God sets before us LIFE and DEATH and allows us to choose. Even Christians. (Christians aren't brought into bondage, but into greater freedom, with even greater consequences for misuse, as it is written "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." 2 Peter 2:21)

There is so much more to write on this but i need to go do a few things before trying to continue. (Like getting in some prayer)

BTW, I answer openly to you because I know you have a good capacity for understanding (and I'd like to help fill it with truth)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I haven't looked to see if it is Sozo in 1 Peter 3:20. Some people seem to think a person should be termed "saved" before they receive the Holy Ghost.

My point has to do with the fact that the word "saved" can mean eternal but it doesn't eliminate man's ability to choose and to mess it up, so to speak.

For example, when God Saved people from the bond age of Egypt, how long was God saving them for? (In other words, for what length of time was he bringing them out of bondage?) ANSWER: Forever! Eternally.

But did they find a way to mess that up? Yes they did.

And did some end up going from that forever/eternal deliverance into actual destruction? Yes. (Think Dathan and Abiram)

And to those very adults that he brought out of Egypt (also including Dathan and Abiram) did not God give a binding promise that he was going to bring them into the promised land? Yes he did. But even with an absolute promise from God, did MOST of them fail to reach the promised land? Yep.

And does God warn us not to be like Dathan and Abiram (as if it is possible for us to repeat their mistakes)? Yes he does.

And does God also warn us not to repeat the behavior of those who failed to reach that absolutely guaranteed promised land (as if repeating it would produce a similar outcome) ? Yes, indeed he does.

As long as we are in this life, God sets before us LIFE and DEATH and allows us to choose. Even Christians. (Christians aren't brought into bondage, but into greater freedom, with even greater consequences for misuse, as it is written "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." 2 Peter 2:21)

There is so much more to write on this but i need to go do a few things before trying to continue. (Like getting in some prayer)

BTW, I answer openly to you because I know you have a good capacity for understanding (and I'd like to help fill it with truth)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I like your point of those who were brought out of Egypt. I would say it was not so much a blind promise as much as it was a conditional one. God brought them out of Bondage and said Go to the place I have prepared for you, but obey me to get it. I do not know off the top of my head how many times God said: "IF you obey my words" "and keep my commandments". I would say more than enough to establish a normative in scripture God expects us to obey and keep HIS commandments.


Secondly, All of those who came out of Eygpt did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Moses did Aaron, and Joshua maybe a few others. but the vast amount of them only had free will to obey or not .

Thanks for your reply. I might pray about it for a day or more before giving a detailed answer, but there are some rather important IF's along with the new testament promises as well.

As for the Holy Ghost (Spiritual life) available to us now, I'll share a reality....

The same way God gave us this natural life to see how we will handle it (Will we use it well? Do we want more? Will we abuse it? Do we hate it?) So it is with the Holy Ghost (spiritual life) when he gives it (Will we use it well? DO we want more? Will we abuse it? Do we hate it?). That's why (even though it is the same Spirit given by the same God) the results are different. ..because each person gets to CHOOSE how they will use it...do they want more, will they abuse it, do they hate it, etc.

The criteria God will use to judge those who have been given little life (natural life) will be the same criteria he uses to judge those who have been given much life (spiritual life) because he is a just God. It's just that the consequences are much greater (in proportion to the amount each person has been given).

There are several parables and teachings Jesus uses to explain this. I'm not going to post them here, partly because I believe you already know them, and partly because I believe that you are wise enough to know that you should go look them up if you dont... and maybe even if you do... to see if what I'm telling you could actually be in line with what Jesus is saying.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Thanks for your reply. I might pray about it for a day or more before giving a detailed answer, but there are some rather important IF's along with the new testament promises as well.

As for the Holy Ghost (Spiritual life) available to us now, I'll share a reality....

The same way God gave us this natural life to see how we will handle it (Will we use it well? Do we want more? Will we abuse it? Do we hate it?) So it is with the Holy Ghost (spiritual life) when he gives it (Will we use it well? DO we want more? Will we abuse it? Do we hate it?). That's why (even though it is the same Spirit given by the same God) the results are different. ..because each person gets to CHOOSE how they will use it...do they want more, will they abuse it, do they hate it, etc.

The criteria God will use to judge those who have been given little life (natural life) will be the same criteria he uses to judge those who have been given much life (spiritual life) because he is a just God. It's just that the consequences are much greater (in proportion to the amount each person has been given).

There are several parables and teachings Jesus uses to explain this. I'm not going to post them here, partly because I believe you already know them, and partly because I believe that you are wise enough to know that you should go look them up if you dont... and maybe even if you do... to see if what I'm telling you could actually be in line with what Jesus is saying.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

There is a eternity of difference between the way God gave us this natural temporal life under the letter of the law "death" and the new creation .The unseen spirit of the law. . . the law of faith.

Faith used in the Bible is never divided . Its little that works in us or none.

One is temporal the seen(sight) , the other eternal not seen (faith) .

In that way it is not those who have been given what you called little life (natural life) .But those who are dead, dying in their trespasses and sins in a temporal earthen body of death (corrupted)

No faith . No eternal spirit life.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

The born again generation have little.

Matthew 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 8:26And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Matthew 14:31And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 16:8Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

Luke 12:28If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Same result whether you consider it little or much. ("He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.")

Luke 19:13 KJV
And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
...
Luke 19:16-17 KJV
Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. [17] And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
...
Luke 19:20-26 KJV
And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: [21] For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. [22] And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
...
[24] And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. [25] (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.) [26] For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

And if you think "Well, that's Ok. He just lost his stuff but he himself will be fine" consider this from the Matthew version:

Matthew 25:28-30 KJV
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. [29] For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. [30] And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Hebrews 10:31 KJV
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby