Christ is of no value to those who observe the old law.

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Relic

Relic

Active member
#1
Apr 29, 2020
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#1
Jesus proclaimed that love fulfils all the law. by stating:
Love the Lord your God and your neighbor as yourself.
The old law is obsolete in all its intentions because it leads
to death. The resurrected Lord has given us the precious
freedom of eternal life so we are now living in faith.
 
ArtsieSteph

ArtsieSteph

Senior Member
#2
Apr 1, 2014
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#2
Sadly yeah. To people who think they have to jump through hoops, they either think they don’t need Jesus or they kinda give up. They think “we’ll if it takes all this to be saved then I don’t care” when they don’t realize that Christ doesn’t require all those hoops.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#3
Jul 2, 2011
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#3
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus teaches the above quotes of Him from Matthew. If you do not understand the Word, please do not make such condemnation where they eyes may deceive the hearts of the innocent from it.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#4
Jul 2, 2011
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#4
ArtsieSteph said:
Sadly yeah. To people who think they have to jump through hoops, they either think they don’t need Jesus or they kinda give up. They think “we’ll if it takes all this to be saved then I don’t care” when they don’t realize that Christ doesn’t require all those hoops.
Click to expand...

All who understand this, as you have posted, know the law well from Jesus, Himself.
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

Well-known member
#5
Jan 19, 2019
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#5
It depends on what is meant by "observe".
If you mean "to depend on for salvation"....then that is vanity.
If you mean "Study, know the roots and significance of our Messiah"....then there is great value in that.

“For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.” (Romans 15:4)

“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;” (2 Timothy 3:16)

““It shall be with him and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, by carefully observing all the words of this law and these statutes,” (Deuteronomy 17:19)
 
Relic

Relic

Active member
#6
Apr 29, 2020
249
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#6
ArtsieSteph said:
Sadly yeah. To people who think they have to jump through hoops, they either think they don’t need Jesus or they kinda give up. They think “we’ll if it takes all this to be saved then I don’t care” when they don’t realize that Christ doesn’t require all those hoops.
Click to expand...
thanks and God bless
 
Relic

Relic

Active member
#7
Apr 29, 2020
249
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#7
Diakonos said:
It depends on what is meant by "observe".
If you mean "to depend on for salvation"....then that is vanity.
If you mean "Study, know the roots and significance of our Messiah"....then there is great value in that.

“For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.” (Romans 15:4)

“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;” (2 Timothy 3:16)

““It shall be with him and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, by carefully observing all the words of this law and these statutes,” (Deuteronomy 17:19)
Click to expand...
 
Relic

Relic

Active member
#8
Apr 29, 2020
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#8
It is clear that whatever law that preceded the risen Lord is obsolete. So to use those
laws for your Christian faith is clearly wrong. Is it wrong to go to the old testament
for information and help, of course not, as long as the obsolete law is not involved.
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

Well-known member
#9
Jan 19, 2019
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#9
Oh I see. Then yes totally.... As long as one is careful to notice which aspects of the Law are no longer binding, and which are. There are moral laws woven in to the laws of Israel that all people are bound to because we see them in the N.T. and other places that are not in the Law
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#10
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#10
Relic said:
Jesus proclaimed that love fulfils all the law. by stating:
Love the Lord your God and your neighbor as yourself.
The old law is obsolete in all its intentions because it leads
to death. The resurrected Lord has given us the precious
freedom of eternal life so we are now living in faith.
Click to expand...
Why do you think James in Acts 21:20-25 did not recognize what you are saying, more than 15 years after Christ resurrected?
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#11
Sep 17, 2016
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#11
Guojing said:
Why do you think James in Acts 21:20-25 did not recognize what you are saying, more than 15 years after Christ resurrected?
Click to expand...
This article explains that whole episode.
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/699-did-paul-sin-in-submitting-to-the-temple-ritual

Ultimately this was Paul's philosophy

1 Corinthians 9:19-22 New International Version (NIV)
Paul’s Use of His Freedom
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#12
Jan 12, 2019
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#12
Roughsoul1991 said:
This article explains that whole episode.
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/699-did-paul-sin-in-submitting-to-the-temple-ritual

Ultimately this was Paul's philosophy

1 Corinthians 9:19-22 New International Version (NIV)
Paul’s Use of His Freedom
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
Click to expand...
I was asking about James' thoughts, not Paul.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#13
Dec 6, 2016
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#13
If you think you can will to sin, that deciding you will follow Christ and not sin is "jumping through hoops", then you have not accepted the ways of Christ.
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#14
Dec 6, 2015
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#14
Relic said:
Jesus proclaimed that love fulfils all the law. by stating:
Love the Lord your God and your neighbor as yourself.
The old law is obsolete in all its intentions because it leads
to death. The resurrected Lord has given us the precious
freedom of eternal life so we are now living in faith.
Click to expand...
How I see it is, If one believes in loving their neighbor as themself, they then will not do the contrary things to their neighbor that the law was meant to prevent. One who is living in this faith, is then complying with the law, while free from complying with letter of the law.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#15
Jun 11, 2018
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#15
luigi said:
How I see it is, If one believes in loving their neighbor as themself, they then will not do the contrary things to their neighbor that the law was meant to prevent. One who is living in this faith, is then complying with the law, while free from complying with letter of the law.
Click to expand...
Hello Luigi, for clarity's sake, please explain what you mean a little more thoroughly (about each of your statements in bold above individually, as well how they compare/contrast with each other, if necessary).

Thanks!

~Deut
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#16
Nov 20, 2018
18,386
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#16
Relic said:
Jesus proclaimed that love fulfils all the law. by stating:
Love the Lord your God and your neighbor as yourself.
The old law is obsolete in all its intentions because it leads
to death. The resurrected Lord has given us the precious
freedom of eternal life so we are now living in faith.
Click to expand...
I think it has more to do with trusting that in keeping the works of the law you are justified and made righteous before God. Paul had Timothy circumcised, made some kind of a Nazarite vow, and attended the temple worship service, with nothing negative being said about it.
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#17
Dec 6, 2015
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#17
Deuteronomy said:
Hello Luigi, for clarity's sake, please explain what you mean a little more thoroughly (about each of your statements in bold above individually, as well how they compare/contrast with each other, if necessary).

Thanks!

~Deut
Click to expand...
Hello Deutronomy, If I believe in loving my neighbor as I love myself, I will then not desire to covet his property. I will not desire to covet his wife, if I love my neighbor as I do myself. I will not want to kill my neighbor if I love my neighbor. And likewise, with the rest of the written laws against committing these crimes, I will not do to my neighbor whom I believe as Christ did in loving. My belief in love thereby fulfills the law, despite my not complying with following the letter of the law to not commit the crimes indicated.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#18
Jun 11, 2018
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#18
cv5 said:
I think it has more to do with trusting that in keeping the works of the law you are justified and made righteous before God.
Click to expand...
Hello cv5, please explain what you mean (concerning the words above in bold type) as I'm certain that I am misunderstanding you.

Thanks!

~Deut
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#19
Jun 11, 2018
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#19
luigi said:
My belief in love thereby fulfills the law, despite my not complying with following the letter of the law to not commit the crimes indicated.
Click to expand...
Thanks Luigi, unfortunately, I may still need a bit more help from you as I remain confused about your meaning.

How does ~belief in love/belief in loving your neighbor~ fulfill the law if it is not accompanied by actual love for your neighbor (or are you saying something different altogether) :unsure:

Thanks again for your help!

~Deut
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#20
Nov 20, 2018
18,386
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#20
Deuteronomy said:
Hello cv5, please explain what you mean (concerning the words above in bold type) as I'm certain that I am misunderstanding you.

Thanks!

~Deut
Click to expand...
Short answer? We are to trust in the completed work of Jesus Christ Himself on our behalf. Nothing more nothing less.
 
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