CESSATIONISM AND HEALING

Many churches spoil christians by always praying for them. Instead they have to teach them faith so they start to pray for themselves by faith! Why?

Being prayed for isn't faith. Instead faith is trusting God and praying to Him for one's own healing in the absence of external support.

Genuineness of faith is seen in the absence of support especially from the local church. That is why Gods sends persecution and breaks apart the local churches. Local churches, gifted healers & medical doctors etc become long term unnecessary crutches which eventually weaken the limbs of faith.

Simply because one is healed doesn't mean he is given a sign. In what state a person receives healing decides whether the healing is a sign or not.
Thus if a person receives healing with faith as Jesus declares in Mathew 9:22, the healing is not a sign. And if the person receives healing without faith, the healing is indeed a sign.

You are confusing between knowledge of Christ and faith in Christ. Simply because a person doesn't know more of Christ doesn't mean he cannot have faith and his healing would necessarily constitute a sign.

Simply because a person has faith doesn't mean he need not grow in faith by growing in knowledge of Christ. The woman in Mathew 9:22 had faith to be healed. But many christians are spoiled to trust in doctors/gifted-healers/prayers of elders in order to be healed. This is what Catholics do!

Both salvation of soul and physical healing is from God's sovereignty through faith. A person without faith in any area is sick and not healthy in that area. Claims of sovereignty without faith is meaningless.

Faith would imply that one believes who HE says HE is...

What is the difference between knowledge of CHRIST and faith in CHRIST?

The woman had knowledge of CHRIST and believed by faith that what she had heard was true...which is WHY she went to HIM...

And if it is YOU who are confused, you could always refer to John 4 and what happened after the woman at the well, received knowledge of HIM, believed and went to share that knowledge with the townspeople...


The only difference that should be noted between knowledge of CHRIST and faith in CHRIST, is if one just amasses to themselves knowledge, treating Jesus as no different than any other wisdom teacher, but has no relationship with HIM whatsoever..and that one, would, therefore NOT have (nor would they exercise) faith in HIM...

But the one with knowledge of HIM and who has faith in him...will ever and always continue coming to HIM...

So, no I am NOT confused at all with the difference between knowledge of CHRIST and FAITH IN CHRIST, sir....

Being prayed for is a work of faith .Faith without works is deader than a door nail . It has no desire to fulfil or trust in .

Are you kidding me, sir.
When one is healed they know it...and I am NOT talking about physical healing, sir

That healing is a cut to the heart revelation of THE VERY TRUTH of THE GOSPEL...

No sir...that is an immediate felt conversion...you....KNOW

By the way...outwardly, I am a catholic...every outward denomination, sir is just that...an outward profession before the eyes of men of who one says they belong to and worship in community. But I am first and foremost CHRISTIAN...and need NO man to teach me, or to lay additional rules for me...for I know the ONE to whom I belong to...and HE, knows because HE sees inwardly upon the heart that true profession...

I will NEVER tell anyone that they should EVER avoid praying to GOD for healing...but I would NEVER tell them NOT to do what they are responsible to do..which is go to the Doctor and be treated for their illness...all the while NEVER, EVER neglecting prayer....

completely unfounded. The local Church does far more than you seem to know. I bet you don't even go to church because you have not found one up to your standard. I wonder what it is you have done to teach , edify, and comfort? Instead of lambasting, scoffing , and mocking those who you can't disciple ? Very judgmental are you.

Firstly, those who claim Christians are entitled to physical healing in this lifetime are the deceivers.

The logical conclusion of your teaching is that if someone has a debilitating issue such as cerebral palsy or paralysis, if they are never healed of it, it is because they lack faith.

Secondly, you are setting Christians up for unmet expectations. When they are not healed of their conditions, they could be tempted to discard their faith.

Thirdly, you are encouraging some individuals in the path of loving God for his gifts, rather than loving Him. This is what Satan claimed Job's motives were. And, to be honest, I think that's what the motive of many WoF, Health Wealth and Prosperity people is. They are looking to God only for his gifts, and not because they love Him and want his presence in their lives.

I mean, I can see this sort of mentality for a baby Christian who is still sucking on the bottle and wearing diapers, but at some point, a believer should grow out of it and quit listening to ill-instructed, false WoF teachers.

Fourthly, the real believer has an eternal perspective. And WoF, Health/Wealth/Prosperity is not focused on this. They do not understand concepts like union with Christ, and how suffering creates Christ in the believer.

2 Corinthians 4:7-18 7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
13 Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak, 14 knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. 15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
(ESV Strong's)

You (Y): those who claim Christians are entitled to physical healing in this lifetime are the deceivers.
Me (M): Those why deny healing in Christ's atonement according to Isaiah 53:4 & Mathew 8:17 are the deceivers. There is no healing required after bodily redemption.

Y: The logical conclusion of your teaching is that if someone has a debilitating issue such as cerebral palsy or paralysis, if they are never healed of it, it is because they lack faith.
M: Jesus cited instances to show that lacking faith or little faith have consequences. Jesus also stated everything is possible by faith. Teach faith rather than cite examples to disprove faith. Faith pleases God.

Y: you are setting Christians up for unmet expectations. When they are not healed of their conditions, they could be tempted to discard their faith.
M: The elect will never discard faith. Instead they will accept faith. So don't cite lame excuses.

Y: you are encouraging some individuals in the path of loving God for his gifts, rather than loving Him. This is what Satan claimed Job's motives were. And, to be honest, I think that's what the motive of many WoF, Health Wealth and Prosperity people is. They are looking to God only for his gifts, and not because they love Him and want his presence in their lives.
M: Nonsense. Hebrews 11:6: "Without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to him, for he who comes to God must believe that he exists, and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him". Don't confuse between looking to God for gifts without faith and with faith. Don't pretend you are a homeless person begging for food and have only His presence. You can't love God without faith.

Y: I can see this sort of mentality for a baby Christian who is still sucking on the bottle and wearing diapers, but at some point, a believer should grow out of it and quit listening to ill-instructed, false WoF teachers.
M: One who denies healing in Christ's atonement is a baby Christian who is still sucking on the bottle and wearing diapers. Grow out of disbelief and quit listening to ill-instructed, false teachers who can't tell the difference between sign gifts and faith.

Y: the real believer has an eternal perspective. And WoF, Health/Wealth/Prosperity is not focused on this. They do not understand concepts like union with Christ, and how suffering creates Christ in the believer.
M: Nonsense. Luke 21: 36: "Therefore be watchful all the time, asking that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen". Jesus taught how to escape tribulations and persecutions. It is not suffering but faith which pleases God, which creates Christ in the believer.

Y: 2 Corinthians 4:7-18.....
M: This passage never denies healing in Christ's atonement. Don't waste your time trying to! Repent.

Doctors only treat. Elders only pray. Faith in Christ's atonement alone can heal.

Faith in CHRISTŚ ATONEMENT did the FIRST WORK already, sir...healed...done...washed, marked...done....clean.

After that, if one is physically sick, they will pray to the ONE whom they have believed in..

Most of these arguments aren't even worth discussing.

I will mention that Luke 21:36 is in the context of God's wrath and end time events, and not in the context of physical healing.

But, I don't suppose you are very interested in reading Scripture in context.

By the way, I used to follow Word of Faith teaching. It was repackaged by a cult leader named Herbert Armstrong, but in essence, he stole their false teachings.

I really don't even have to argue these points. There are tons of dead, bald, hearing-impaired WoFers wearing glasses and hearing aids. They have not evaded the physical consequences of the Curse throughout their lifetimes. They can claim it all they want.

The physical body of believers is decaying before their eyes.

2 Cor 4:7-18 clearly teaches that believers are not exempt from all kinds of afflictions and their outward bodies are fading away and growing weak. You provided no meaningful answer regarding the teaching of Scripture in this regard.

2 Corinthians 4:7-18 7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. 8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. 11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
13 Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak, 14 knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. 15 For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
(ESV Strong's)


Clasp your hand and cover your eyes..continue to ignore the plain teaching of Scripture.

You know, a long time ago I gave up trying to convince someone who won't be convinced. I learned I cannot unbind folks from delusional teaching. Only God can do that.

Y (You): Most of these arguments aren't even worth discussing.
M: Most of your arguments are unbiblical, flimsy and delusional.

Y: I will mention that Luke 21:36 is in the context of God's wrath and end time events, and not in the context of physical healing.
M: When the discussion was about physical healing, you ridiculously brought in tribulations. So I rebutted your unbiblical thinking with Luke 21:36.

Y: 2 Corinthians 4:7-18
M: You haven't proved this passage disproves healing through faith in Christ's atonement in Isaiah 53:4 & Mathew 8:17.

Y: By the way, I used to follow Word of Faith teaching.
M: You haven't clarified your unbiblical confusion between sign gifts and faith.

If you deny healing through faith in Christ's atonement, you are an apostate regarding healing seeking medical doctor as your Messiah.

I see your silence on my other points.

Healing signs are for unbelievers to help them believe WHAT sir?

You are unable to read Scripture without your Word of Faith filter.

Do you not know that Luke was a physician?

I don't claim that medical science is my Messiah, but I don't limit God to using men to accomplish his will. For instance, Cyrus the pagan ruler was used to restore Jerusalem.

Additionally, the atonement assures the restoration of all things, but not in this life. People of real faith await the full restoration. Read Hebrews 11.

Fake believers like many Word of Faith people have vain hope. They don't have an eternal perspective and look for restoration in this world. Their hope is here.

By the way, where are your Word of Faith healers in light of Covid 19? Why is Covid 19 still killing people, when Copeland declared it to be gone?

Did you know that Copeland declared it to be gone already? LOL

The foolishness of these people is astounding, yet guys like you continue to maintain your claims.

Y (You): Most of these arguments aren't even worth discussing.
M: Most of your arguments are unbiblical, flimsy and delusional.

Y: I will mention that Luke 21:36 is in the context of God's wrath and end time events, and not in the context of physical healing.
M: When the discussion was about physical healing, you ridiculously brought in tribulations. So I rebutted your unbiblical thinking with Luke 21:36.

Y: 2 Corinthians 4:7-18
M: You haven't proved this passage disproves healing through faith in Christ's atonement in Isaiah 53:4 & Mathew 8:17.

Y: By the way, I used to follow Word of Faith teaching.
M: You haven't clarified your unbiblical confusion between sign gifts and faith.

If you deny healing through faith in Christ's atonement, you are an apostate regarding healing seeking medical doctor as your Messiah.

I see your silence on my other points.

Pray for themselves for healing by faith in Christ's atonement. Not depending on elders, gifted healers like babies.

You are unable to read Scripture without your Word of Faith filter.

Do you not know that Luke was a physician?

I don't claim that medical science is my Messiah, but I don't limit God to using men to accomplish his will. For instance, Cyrus the pagan ruler was used to restore Jerusalem.

Additionally, the atonement assures the restoration of all things, but not in this life. People of real faith await the full restoration. Read Hebrews 11.

Fake believers like many Word of Faith people have vain hope. They don't have an eternal perspective and look for restoration in this world. Their hope is here.

By the way, where are your Word of Faith healers in light of Covid 19? Why is Covid 19 still killing people, when Copeland declared it to be gone?

Did you know that Copeland declared it to be gone already? LOL

The foolishness of these people is astounding, yet guys like you continue to maintain your claims.