Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

EleventhHour

Guest
@dcontroversal and @EleventhHour - I have a hypothesis......

Believers get unsure about their salvation because they don't understand the "work of the Holy Spirit with the Word of God" to restore their soul by transforming their mind.

What do you think, dc and 11th? :unsure:

I'm only talking about true born again believers that struggle with their flesh because they don't understand the power of the Holy Spirit that is available to them.

We preach so much Word, which is good.......but, the Holy Spirit is necessary because we need to learn how to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
For myself it was clearly taught to me at the age of 21 all based on scripture and never doubted after that...I agree with @dcontroversal it is all about sound teaching.
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
it is all about sound teaching.
Really?

You said we couldn't love perfectly.

I posted a scripture that says the opposite.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily the love of God is perfected: hereby know we that we are in him (1 John 2:5)

The fruits of some here declare plainly who is leading them at this time.

Your doctrine collides with scripture so often that its clear that the only thing that explains its continued existence is spiritual blindness.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,578
565
113
Hey :) since some seem to talk bold... there are words spoken that a believer should never say/use. After so much time being with the kind of kings lord of lord.. and the sweet Holy Spirit.. how do we still talk like the world? It is not a "righteous" anger being used :)

Truth.. there are no denominations with God. Right now its not on earth as it IS in heaven. Like the song playing now.. we keep fighting a fight that has already been won. So if were still trying to push our personal truth.. nothings going to change. Since God is not behind it.

So as much as I never worry about my salvation.. there are times questions come.. the truth is were not puppets..were not slaves to all this. So..if one wonders or is scared.. I just show them again what God has said in His word. No OSAS and no you can lose your salvation.

Its really easy to see. Well what is, who is our Father? Yeah its ALL about? FAITH! That is what it will always come down to. We can try to wiggle around it all but in the end.. we all come to that same wall/door. At some point we will HAVE to just take it on faith :) There is no past in heaven. no tomorrow. So live in the moment He gave us. So much of this is doubt worry and no faith. Oh.. I am not right.. if I am wrong Father change me first. Salvation does not come from me. I have no say in it. I can't save anyone. No matter WHAT I say or believe.. it always comes back to HIM. He just .. never lost.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie (Revelation 22:14-15).
Multiple translations read, "Blessed are those who wash their robes" (Revelation 22:14) - https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation 22:14 which symbolizes those who have been forgiven of their sins through the blood of the Lamb (Romans 3:24-26). *Also see Revelation 7:14. Revelation 22:15 is descriptive of unbelievers.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,732
3,559
113
Hey :) since some seem to talk bold... there are words spoken that a believer should never say/use. After so much time being with the kind of kings lord of lord.. and the sweet Holy Spirit.. how do we still talk like the world? It is not a "righteous" anger being used :)

Truth.. there are no denominations with God. Right now its not on earth as it IS in heaven. Like the song playing now.. we keep fighting a fight that has already been won. So if were still trying to push our personal truth.. nothings going to change. Since God is not behind it.

So as much as I never worry about my salvation.. there are times questions come.. the truth is were not puppets..were not slaves to all this. So..if one wonders or is scared.. I just show them again what God has said in His word. No OSAS and no you can lose your salvation.

Its really easy to see. Well what is, who is our Father? Yeah its ALL about? FAITH! That is what it will always come down to. We can try to wiggle around it all but in the end.. we all come to that same wall/door. At some point we will HAVE to just take it on faith :) There is no past in heaven. no tomorrow. So live in the moment He gave us. So much of this is doubt worry and no faith. Oh.. I am not right.. if I am wrong Father change me first. Salvation does not come from me. I have no say in it. I can't save anyone. No matter WHAT I say or believe.. it always comes back to HIM. He just .. never lost.
Hello @Blade,

Nice of you to join us! You seem fun-loving, kind and sincere...be careful....there's fire on this thread....meaning anything that is not of God will be consumed and left in a pile of ashes......:eek::giggle::love:

Glad you're here! :love:(y)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Really?

You said we couldn't love perfectly.

I posted a scripture that says the opposite.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily the love of God is perfected: hereby know we that we are in him (1 John 2:5)

The fruits of some here declare plainly who is leading them at this time.

Your doctrine collides with scripture so often that its clear that the only thing that explains its continued existence is spiritual blindness.
Do not confuse raking false deceivers over the coals for a lack of love.....and too be honest, the fact you do, speaks volumes to your lack of understanding...Love and TRUTH go hand in hand....JESUS, Elijah, John the Baptist, Paul and others, while HAVING AND EXERCISING a BIBLICAL LOVE OF THE TRUTH AND GOD raked false teachers over the coals using sarcasm, heated pointed names, anger, etc.......the fact that you disassociate these truths from LOVE does not speak well to your stance!!!

Make no mistake about it!!!!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
I wonder if any of the honest OSAS'ers will rebuke this hateful insulting speech.

Man, you are bold in your nastiness.

You say we should be tolerate FALSE TEACHING ? ? ? That is not what my Bible says; and JESUS, Paul, and Peter did not teach that.

Acts 20:26-31 (HCSB)
26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of everyone’s blood,
27 for I did not shrink back from declaring to you the whole plan of God.
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock that the Holy Spirit has appointed you to as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 And men will rise up from your own number with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them.
31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each one of you with tears.


1 Timothy 1:3-12 (HCSB)
3 As I urged you when I went to Macedonia, remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach different doctrine
4 or to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies. These promote empty speculations rather than God’s plan, which operates by faith.
5 Now the goal of our instruction is love ⌊that comes⌋ from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.
6 Some have deviated from these and turned aside to fruitless discussion.
7 They want to be teachers of the law, although they don’t understand what they are saying or what they are insisting on.
8 But we know that the law is good, provided one uses it legitimately.
9 We know that the law is not meant for a righteous person, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
10 for the sexually immoral and homosexuals, for kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching
11 based on the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was entrusted to me.
12 I give thanks to Christ Jesus our Lord who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, appointing me to the ministry—

1 Timothy 1:18-20 (HCSB)
18 Timothy, my son, I am giving you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies previously made about you, so that by them you may strongly engage in battle,
19 having faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and have suffered the shipwreck of their faith.
20 Hymenaeus and Alexander are among them, and I have delivered them to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.


2 Peter 2:1-10 (HCSB)
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their unrestrained ways, and the way of truth will be blasphemed because of them.
3 They will exploit you in their greed with deceptive words. Their condemnation, ⌊pronounced⌋ long ago, is not idle, and their destruction does not sleep.
4 For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;
5 and ⌊if⌋ He didn’t spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others, when He brought a flood on the world of the ungodly;
6 and ⌊if⌋ He reduced the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes and condemned them to ruin, making them an example to those who were going to be ungodly;
7 and ⌊if⌋ He rescued righteous Lot, distressed by the unrestrained behavior of the immoral
8 (for as he lived among them, that righteous man tormented himself day by day with the lawless deeds he saw and heard)—
9 ⌊then⌋ the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,
10 especially those who follow the polluting desires of the flesh and despise authority. Bold, arrogant people! They do not tremble when they blaspheme the glorious ones;


Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.

14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them,
‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’


Matthew 24:21-30 (HCSB)
21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, the kind that hasn’t taken place from the beginning of the world until now and never will again!

22 Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.
23 “If anyone tells you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Over here!’ do not believe it!
24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
25 Take note: I have told you in advance.
26 So if they tell you, ‘Look, He’s in the wilderness!’ don’t go out; ‘Look, He’s in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
28 Wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days: The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the celestial powers will be shaken.
30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the peoples of the earth will mourn; and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Matthew 12:33-34 (ESV)
33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit.
34 You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Matthew 23:28-34 (ESV)
28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,
30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.
33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town,



So we are to be Tolerant towards all False Teachers ? ? ?

I do not see that as BIBLICAL.


 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
Yeshua/Jesus Christ was speaking to the Pharisees because they were murmuring about Yeshua/Jesus receiving publicans and sinners.
Amen! CONTEXT. All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) Eternal IN-securists will try to use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)

Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually.

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NAS).
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Amen! Can't find those because they do not exist and also can't find un-regenerated or un-sealed by the Holy Spirit. ;)
It is utterly amazing-> How many believe that the sealing of the Spirit can be undone.....how many say the gifts of God are REVOCABLE....how many that say eternal is temporary, how many say Jesus will forsake us or leave us or how many that say we can be UNBORN, etc...sickening
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
Amen....not that we LOVED HIM, BUT THAT HE LOVED US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US.......people are saved by faith not love!
Amen! We are saved by grace through faith, not works, which include acts of love/charity. After we have been saved through faith, then faith works through love (Galatians 5:6) BECAUSE we are saved and not in order to become saved. We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) The love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
113
58
It is utterly amazing-> How many believe that the sealing of the Spirit can be undone.....how many say the gifts of God are REVOCABLE....how many that say eternal is temporary, how many say Jesus will forsake us or leave us or how many that say we can be UNBORN, etc...sickening
Amen! Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Amen! CONTEXT. All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2) Eternal IN-securists will try to use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that believers can lose their salvation by arguing that the prodigal son was spiritually alive, then spiritually died (lost his salvation) and was spiritually alive again (regained his salvation) from Luke 15:32 based on certain translations which read: ..thy brother was dead, and is alive AGAIN (KJV) ..for your brother was dead and is alive AGAIN (NKJV) ..this brother of yours was dead and is alive AGAIN (NIV)

Yet others will argue that in this parable, being made "alive again" foreshadows the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of in John 3:3. Of course Jesus wasn't talking about being born again spiritually again and again. We are born once physically and born "again" once spiritually.

I find it interesting that certain translations of Luke 15:32 simply say your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NAS).
He was a Son through the whole process and only perceived as dead even though very much alive and the take away is clear....worldly believers that wonder and live worldly may not give much if any light and may be perceived as dead, but are indeed very much ALIVE SPIRITUALLY....SMOULDERING BUT NEVER EXTINGUISHED!!
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
.
You must be lost then.....forsaking assembling together counts the blood of Jesus a common, ordinary base thing and TRAMPLES JESUS UNDER YOUR FEET......tell us all again how you do not assemble with any church!
If me not being able to find a church is insulting the Spirit of grace and trampling on Jesus, what is watching socially acceptable porn on Netflix?
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
:rolleyes:.........lol! :giggle::love:

Oh Judges1318, tell me......what would you say to a prodigal son or daughter? :unsure:
I answered this already...
The prodigal can not be in the land of prostitutes and pig farms when Jesus returns and expect to be saved.
A prodigal son is in unbelief. Prodigals are not believers struggling with sin.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Yeshua/Jesus Christ was speaking to the Pharisees because they were murmuring about Yeshua/Jesus receiving publicans and sinners.
Little question about that.
But they were certainly not the Pharisees and leaders of Israel who had Jesus put to death.
The Prodigal son represents the nation of disobedient people that Israel had become, forsaking their inheritance in unbelief.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,732
3,559
113
I answered this already...
A prodigal son is in unbelief. Prodigals are not believers struggling with sin.
No... I didn’t ask for your definition of a prodigal son or daughter, I asked, “WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM?” You had said that you were not judging or condemning them - just concerned for them... :rolleyes::giggle:

(Sorry, I think it’s funny to roll my eyes....I like that emoji..lol! :rolleyes::giggle::love:(y))
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
There is only ONE truth... we are not in the realm of dissenting opinions.
That does not address my post.
Why do you feel it necessary to suppress people from having an opinion different than yours?
God let's everybody think and feel and act and believe the way they want.
He is not a narcissistic control freak.

Why do you find it necessary to erase the freedom to have a dissenting opinion if God doesn't?
This thread seems to be devoted to killing off everyone who doesn't agree with osas. That's not God.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
That does not address my post.
Why do you feel it necessary to suppress people from having an opinion different than yours?
God let's everybody think and feel and act and believe the way they want.
He is not a narcissistic control freak.

Why do you find it necessary to erase the freedom to have a dissenting opinion if God doesn't?
This thread seems to be devoted to killing off everyone who doesn't agree with osas. That's not God.
Are you serious?

Opinion?
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
No... I didn’t ask for your definition of a prodigal son or daughter, I asked, “WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM?” You had said that you were not judging or condemning them - just concerned for them... :rolleyes::giggle:

(Sorry, I think it’s funny to roll my eyes....I like that emoji..lol! :rolleyes::giggle::love:(y))
Whoa! Whoa!
You misquoted me.
Did you do that intentionally?

This is the answer I gave you the first time you asked whether you think it is or not:
The prodigal can not be in the land of prostitutes and pig farms when Jesus returns and expect to be saved.
This is what they need to hear.
They need to come home so they can be saved, not remain lost as the parable says they are.