Rightly dividing the word of God #2 2 Timothy 2:15

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B

Beckworth

Active member
#1
May 15, 2019
616
215
43
#1
In a previous post, I discussed how there were 3 different laws in the Bible.
The first was the Patriarchal law (Genesis) that was universal for all people and races. (Called the law of the father’s). Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Joseph all lived under this law.
Then God chose a special people—the Jews (Exodus) and gave them their own law, written down. It was Not a universal law for all people, but a law for the Jews only. Deuteronomy 5:3.
“The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb (Mt. Sinai). The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with US all of us who are alive.”
Moses was the one talking (verse 1) and he was speaking to “all Israel”. After this he reviewed the events that took place at Mt Sinai with God giving them the 10 commandments. This law was never a universal law fhat included the Gentiles. It was only for the Jews. The non-Jews (Gentiles) did not practice circumcision as a rule, they did not offer burnet sacrifices or keep Jewish feast days or practice tithing; the sabbath day was not holy to them. They were not given the commandment to not work on the Sabbath. To practice those things they would first have to convert to Judaism and become a proselyte Jew!
The old law given by Moses separates the Jew from the Gentile. There was enmity between the Jews and the Gentiles. That is clearly seen in the New Testament. The Jews thought of the Gentiles as “dogs” or unclean people.
Remember the story of the Syro-Phoenician woman who came to Jesus asking him to heal her daughter. Jesus said it was not proper to give the children’s Meat to the dogs. And she answered yes Lord but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the children’s table.
Then we have the story of Peter and the heavenly vision. (Acts 10) He said that it was common knowledge that Jews were not to keep company with Gentiles but God had taught him not to call anyone common or unclean.
Romans 2:14 says that the Gentiles were a law unto themselves.
Now if the Jewish law, which included circumcision, animal sacrifice, tithing, and keeping the Sabbath holy, if that law did not apply to the Gentiles of the Old Testament or the Gentiles of the New Testament,, then why do Gentiles today (you and me) think it apples to us and that we are bound by it? It does not apply to us and we are not bound to obey it.
There is more reason than ever to for us as Christians not to bind the old Law of Moses on anyone because we are living under the Christian dispensation, the law of Christ which is for all people if all nations; our law is the gospel of Christ not the law of Moses.
I know for sure that Christ did not want us to “Tithe” because of I Corinthians 16:1-2. “Now concerning the collection of the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia so you must do also. On the First day of the week, let everyone of you lay by something in store, as he has prospered...”. He did not say I want you to tithe, which means to give a tenth. He says I want you to give as you have prospered. If you have a good week you give generously. If you have a lean week, you can’t give as much. Christ’s law is called the law of liberty. It has liberated us from the restrictions of the old law.
This is a commandment given to Christians who are living under the New Testament of Christ. The wording is very specific; the “collection” for the “churches”. We must follow the gospel of Christ not the Jewish law of the Old Testament. Do not listen to the doctrines of men who want to bind “tithing” on you. You have been liberated by Christ.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#2
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#2
Beckworth said:
Do not listen to the doctrines of men who want to bind “tithing” on you. You have been liberated by Christ.
Click to expand...
Tithing is only one aspect of the Law of Moses, which is not applicable to either Jew or Gentile today, since the temple and the Levitical priesthood do not exist. But there are many today trying to revive the Old Covenant through the observance of feasts, festivals, and holy days, including the seventh day sabbath. However, without the temple, all of that means nothing, since the temple sacrifices are integral to everything in the Old Covenant.

As to Christian giving, it is called a "grace" and it is also called "liberality". Which means that it will exceed the ability of those who are giving to the Lord, just like the widow who gave all of her living. At the same time, the leadership within each church has a tremendous responsibility to apply the weekly offerings as God requires. Which is not exactly how many churches apply the gifts and offerings. And then we have the Prosperity Gospel preachers, trying to enhance their personal fortunes at the expense of poor, gullible Christians. When preachers have net worths in the millions and lavish lifestyles, it means that they are no longer ministers of the Gospel.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#3
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#3
Beckworth said:
In a previous post, I discussed how there were 3 different laws in the Bible.
The first was the Patriarchal law (Genesis) that was universal for all people and races. (Called the law of the father’s). Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Joseph all lived under this law.
Then God chose a special people—the Jews (Exodus) and gave them their own law, written down. It was Not a universal law for all people, but a law for the Jews only. Deuteronomy 5:3.
“The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb (Mt. Sinai). The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with US all of us who are alive.”
Moses was the one talking (verse 1) and he was speaking to “all Israel”. After this he reviewed the events that took place at Mt Sinai with God giving them the 10 commandments. This law was never a universal law fhat included the Gentiles. It was only for the Jews. The non-Jews (Gentiles) did not practice circumcision as a rule, they did not offer burnet sacrifices or keep Jewish feast days or practice tithing; the sabbath day was not holy to them. They were not given the commandment to not work on the Sabbath. To practice those things they would first have to convert to Judaism and become a proselyte Jew!
The old law given by Moses separates the Jew from the Gentile. There was enmity between the Jews and the Gentiles. That is clearly seen in the New Testament. The Jews thought of the Gentiles as “dogs” or unclean people.
Remember the story of the Syro-Phoenician woman who came to Jesus asking him to heal her daughter. Jesus said it was not proper to give the children’s Meat to the dogs. And she answered yes Lord but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the children’s table.
Then we have the story of Peter and the heavenly vision. (Acts 10) He said that it was common knowledge that Jews were not to keep company with Gentiles but God had taught him not to call anyone common or unclean.
Romans 2:14 says that the Gentiles were a law unto themselves.
Now if the Jewish law, which included circumcision, animal sacrifice, tithing, and keeping the Sabbath holy, if that law did not apply to the Gentiles of the Old Testament or the Gentiles of the New Testament,, then why do Gentiles today (you and me) think it apples to us and that we are bound by it? It does not apply to us and we are not bound to obey it.
There is more reason than ever to for us as Christians not to bind the old Law of Moses on anyone because we are living under the Christian dispensation, the law of Christ which is for all people if all nations; our law is the gospel of Christ not the law of Moses.
I know for sure that Christ did not want us to “Tithe” because of I Corinthians 16:1-2. “Now concerning the collection of the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia so you must do also. On the First day of the week, let everyone of you lay by something in store, as he has prospered...”. He did not say I want you to tithe, which means to give a tenth. He says I want you to give as you have prospered. If you have a good week you give generously. If you have a lean week, you can’t give as much. Christ’s law is called the law of liberty. It has liberated us from the restrictions of the old law.
This is a commandment given to Christians who are living under the New Testament of Christ. The wording is very specific; the “collection” for the “churches”. We must follow the gospel of Christ not the Jewish law of the Old Testament. Do not listen to the doctrines of men who want to bind “tithing” on you. You have been liberated by Christ.
Click to expand...
In my bible I find that God created the Jews as special people because the gentiles turned away fro Him, and those Jews were created from gentiles. I have never found a scripture telling me that what God told the Jews were for them alone, or asking gentiles not to listen. Instead I find many verses saying gentiles are included.

Please give scripture backup for your statement about Jews only. Surely you have read the scriptures including gentiles, but I'll get out my notes if you can't find them in you bible.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#4
#4
Beckworth said:
In a previous post, I discussed how there were 3 different laws in the Bible.
The first was the Patriarchal law (Genesis) that was universal for all people and races. (Called the law of the father’s). Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Joseph all lived under this law.
Then God chose a special people—the Jews (Exodus) and gave them their own law, written down. It was Not a universal law for all people, but a law for the Jews only. Deuteronomy 5:3.
“The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb (Mt. Sinai). The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with US all of us who are alive.”
Moses was the one talking (verse 1) and he was speaking to “all Israel”. After this he reviewed the events that took place at Mt Sinai with God giving them the 10 commandments. This law was never a universal law fhat included the Gentiles. It was only for the Jews. The non-Jews (Gentiles) did not practice circumcision as a rule, they did not offer burnet sacrifices or keep Jewish feast days or practice tithing; the sabbath day was not holy to them. They were not given the commandment to not work on the Sabbath. To practice those things they would first have to convert to Judaism and become a proselyte Jew!
The old law given by Moses separates the Jew from the Gentile. There was enmity between the Jews and the Gentiles. That is clearly seen in the New Testament. The Jews thought of the Gentiles as “dogs” or unclean people.
Remember the story of the Syro-Phoenician woman who came to Jesus asking him to heal her daughter. Jesus said it was not proper to give the children’s Meat to the dogs. And she answered yes Lord but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the children’s table.
Then we have the story of Peter and the heavenly vision. (Acts 10) He said that it was common knowledge that Jews were not to keep company with Gentiles but God had taught him not to call anyone common or unclean.
Romans 2:14 says that the Gentiles were a law unto themselves.
Now if the Jewish law, which included circumcision, animal sacrifice, tithing, and keeping the Sabbath holy, if that law did not apply to the Gentiles of the Old Testament or the Gentiles of the New Testament,, then why do Gentiles today (you and me) think it apples to us and that we are bound by it? It does not apply to us and we are not bound to obey it.
There is more reason than ever to for us as Christians not to bind the old Law of Moses on anyone because we are living under the Christian dispensation, the law of Christ which is for all people if all nations; our law is the gospel of Christ not the law of Moses.
I know for sure that Christ did not want us to “Tithe” because of I Corinthians 16:1-2. “Now concerning the collection of the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia so you must do also. On the First day of the week, let everyone of you lay by something in store, as he has prospered...”. He did not say I want you to tithe, which means to give a tenth. He says I want you to give as you have prospered. If you have a good week you give generously. If you have a lean week, you can’t give as much. Christ’s law is called the law of liberty. It has liberated us from the restrictions of the old law.
This is a commandment given to Christians who are living under the New Testament of Christ. The wording is very specific; the “collection” for the “churches”. We must follow the gospel of Christ not the Jewish law of the Old Testament. Do not listen to the doctrines of men who want to bind “tithing” on you. You have been liberated by Christ.
Click to expand...
I believe that the principle still applies. God seeks those who worship in Spirit and in truth. If God thought it was a good idea for the church members to support the church by laying up once a week for a collection 1 Cor 16 Then we should keep that up, even though The percentage is not mentioned, instead it says Giving as God has Prospered him 1 Cor 16 (a portion in proportion to how God has prospered him). So that does sound similar to a tithe, but tithe is not mentioned because any portion given in faith and from a cheerful heart is accepted, howbeit AS GOD HAS PROSPERED him does seem to suggest a portion that matches the level of blessing received. A tithe is a good and biblical measure to use without it being a law. You could use any PORTION that you would like to use but since it is ACCORDING to how God has prospered him then a tithing with a cheerful heart of faith is a good guide, not because it is an Old Testament Law but because it is a PORTION that was considered sufficient to get the job done in the past, it is probably a good guide to use as a PORTION to lay up for supporting the work of the ministry of the church today. By all means give as much as you want but I would suggest that it is a lack of faith to give less than 10%. Not a law, but a lack of faith. Think about it. Most people do not give close to 10% and I do not believe it is because they are being lead by the Spirit, it is because they think someone else will give more than 10% like the wealthy. They do not understand how great it works out when everyone gives their portion. Most people will spend more on weekly snacks and coffee than they give to their church. This is not about being under a law, it is about LOVING the body of Christ and the work of missions. Where your heart is there will your treasure be also. I will preach tithing as an act of faith and a good biblical guide for what PORTION to layup. I think there are principles behind many of the OT instructions that should be understood and those theological principles should be kept even though we are not under the law. For example the dietary laws are not necessary but the lesson of being separate from the other nations that used those animals in their idol sacrifices is still the message. Do not be like the world or indulge in the sinful habits of the world. These truths are still to be obeyed. It takes the Spirit of God and being familiar with scripture to understand the principles behind the ceremonial laws but they too have a spiritual lesson to be applied. Those who use the tithing laws to try to put them on the backs of christians are in violation proper hermeneutics and I do not understand how they can do such a thing and not feel like a false teacher. However explaining the tithe principle and and using the 10% as a biblical guide is probably what they did in the 1st century as well.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#5
May 15, 2019
616
215
43
#5
Beckworth said:
In a previous post, I discussed how there were 3 different laws in the Bible.
The first was the Patriarchal law (Genesis) that was universal for all people and races. (Called the law of the father’s). Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Joseph all lived under this law.
Then God chose a special people—the Jews (Exodus) and gave them their own law, written down. It was Not a universal law for all people, but a law for the Jews only. Deuteronomy 5:3.
“The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb (Mt. Sinai). The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with US all of us who are alive.”
Moses was the one talking (verse 1) and he was speaking to “all Israel”. After this he reviewed the events that took place at Mt Sinai with God giving them the 10 commandments. This law was never a universal law fhat included the Gentiles. It was only for the Jews. The non-Jews (Gentiles) did not practice circumcision as a rule, they did not offer burnet sacrifices or keep Jewish feast days or practice tithing; the sabbath day was not holy to them. They were not given the commandment to not work on the Sabbath. To practice those things they would first have to convert to Judaism and become a proselyte Jew!
The old law given by Moses separates the Jew from the Gentile. There was enmity between the Jews and the Gentiles. That is clearly seen in the New Testament. The Jews thought of the Gentiles as “dogs” or unclean people.
Remember the story of the Syro-Phoenician woman who came to Jesus asking him to heal her daughter. Jesus said it was not proper to give the children’s Meat to the dogs. And she answered yes Lord but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the children’s table.
Then we have the story of Peter and the heavenly vision. (Acts 10) He said that it was common knowledge that Jews were not to keep company with Gentiles but God had taught him not to call anyone common or unclean.
Romans 2:14 says that the Gentiles were a law unto themselves.
Now if the Jewish law, which included circumcision, animal sacrifice, tithing, and keeping the Sabbath holy, if that law did not apply to the Gentiles of the Old Testament or the Gentiles of the New Testament,, then why do Gentiles today (you and me) think it apples to us and that we are bound by it? It does not apply to us and we are not bound to obey it.
There is more reason than ever to for us as Christians not to bind the old Law of Moses on anyone because we are living under the Christian dispensation, the law of Christ which is for all people if all nations; our law is the gospel of Christ not the law of Moses.
I know for sure that Christ did not want us to “Tithe” because of I Corinthians 16:1-2. “Now concerning the collection of the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia so you must do also. On the First day of the week, let everyone of you lay by something in store, as he has prospered...”. He did not say I want you to tithe, which means to give a tenth. He says I want you to give as you have prospered. If you have a good week you give generously. If you have a lean week, you can’t give as much. Christ’s law is called the law of liberty. It has liberated us from the restrictions of the old law.
This is a commandment given to Christians who are living under the New Testament of Christ. The wording is very specific; the “collection” for the “churches”. We must follow the gospel of Christ not the Jewish law of the Old Testament. Do not listen to the doctrines of men who want to bind “tithing” on you. You have been liberated by Christ.[/QUOTEl
Click to expand...
Nehemiah6 said:
Tithing is only one aspect of the Law of Moses, which is not applicable to either Jew or Gentile today, since the temple and the Levitical priesthood do not exist. But there are many today trying to revive the Old Covenant through the observance of feasts, festivals, and holy days, including the seventh day sabbath. However, without the temple, all of that means nothing, since the temple sacrifices are integral to everything in the Old Covenant.

As to Christian giving, it is called a "grace" and it is also called "liberality". Which means that it will exceed the ability of those who are giving to the Lord, just like the widow who gave all of her living. At the same time, the leadership within each church has a tremendous responsibility to apply the weekly offerings as God requires. Which is not exactly how many churches apply the gifts and offerings. And then we have the Prosperity Gospel preachers, trying to enhance their personal fortunes at the expense of poor, gullible Christians. When preachers have net worths in the millions and lavish lifestyles, it means that they are no longer ministers of the Gospel.
Click to expand...
I agree. The principles that apply here to tithing, also apply to keeping the Sabbath day and all other practices under the old law of the Jews.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#6
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#6
Beckworth said:
I agree. The principles that apply here to tithing, also apply to keeping the Sabbath day and all other practices under the old law of the Jews.
Click to expand...
I am amazed at the world these posts tell of. God is pictured as untrustworthy, telling people one thing one day and then taking it all back and saying scratch that, you don't have to do a thing physically, it is all to be done with you mind. Say "faith" and "love" and that is all it takes. Your God cancelled everything else! Your new covenant that you guys made up covers everything.

I have a bible that tells of a God of power who is a perfect creator and God, I wish you could meet Him. The God of scripture loves all people the same. He gave a special blessing to a race He created just to show all others what He is like, they are called Jews but they live in the same world the same as gentiles and God loves both. The God of scripture gave a new covenant, but it is much different than the one you have. Yours cancels all of God's work, this one adds blessings. This covenant has a Holy Spirit given to all who ask to communicate with God instead of the old way of cutting flesh and special diet. It makes some things obsolete, but it cancels nothing. We still become God's child and belong to Him, but don't mark it on our flesh. We still watch our thoughts and what we read and hear for cleanliness, but don't watch our food for only meat from animals that don't eat garbage.
 
G

garee

Banned
#7
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#7
In a previous post, I discussed how there were 3 different laws in the Bible.
The first was the Patriarchal law (Genesis) that was universal for all people and races. (Called the law of the father’s). Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Joseph all lived under this law.
Then God chose a special people—the Jews (Exodus) and gave them their own law, written down. It was Not a universal law for all people, but a law for the Jews only. Deuteronomy 5:3.
“The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb (Mt. Sinai). The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with US all of us who are alive.”
Moses was the one talking (verse 1) and he was speaking to “all Israel”. After this he reviewed the events that took place at Mt Sinai with God giving them the 10 commandments. This law was never a universal law fhat included the Gentiles. It was only for the Jews. The non-Jews (Gentiles) did not practice circumcision as a rule, they did not offer burnet sacrifices or keep Jewish feast days or practice tithing; the sabbath day was not holy to them. They were not given the commandment to not work on the Sabbath. To practice those things they would first have to convert to Judaism and become a proselyte Jew!
The old law given by Moses separates the Jew from the Gentile. There was enmity between the Jews and the Gentiles. That is clearly seen in the New Testament. The Jews thought of the Gentiles as “dogs” or unclean people.
Remember the story of the Syro-Phoenician woman who came to Jesus asking him to heal her daughter. Jesus said it was not proper to give the children’s Meat to the dogs. And she answered yes Lord but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the children’s table.
Then we have the story of Peter and the heavenly vision. (Acts 10) He said that it was common knowledge that Jews were not to keep company with Gentiles but God had taught him not to call anyone common or unclean.
Romans 2:14 says that the Gentiles were a law unto themselves.
Now if the Jewish law, which included circumcision, animal sacrifice, tithing, and keeping the Sabbath holy, if that law did not apply to the Gentiles of the Old Testament or the Gentiles of the New Testament,, then why do Gentiles today (you and me) think it apples to us and that we are bound by it? It does not apply to us and we are not bound to obey it.
There is more reason than ever to for us as Christians not to bind the old Law of Moses on anyone because we are living under the Christian dispensation, the law of Christ which is for all people if all nations; our law is the gospel of Christ not the law of Moses.
Click to expand...
The law brings people together .It does not separate the flesh of one sinful nation from another. That a "law of the fathers" is after the god of this world.

The perfect law separates forgiven sinners from those who have no faith to believe God.

I would offer the Bible speaks of one perfect law made up of two . (1) The letter seen it kills' and (2)the law of faith working with the letter. Together as perfect law it heals or creates.

God does not design laws according to the flesh of men ."law of fathers" .That is a work of the father of lies.

What ever law apples to a Gentile applies to Jew .

Satan as of the first century reformation has fallen from the position of deceiving all the nation previously using the flesh of a Jew. Which was made up from two tribes the Amorites and the Hittites . Enemies of the word of God.

The promise of Joel that God would come bring prophets male and female of al the nations and mock the atheist Jews that mocked God with the law of the fathers .The Jew were used to represent mankind (fools) as a whole in parables and ceremonial laws. He could of used any nation to show he is not served with human hands. But drew straws .and came up with the Hittite and Amorites naming the new nation Jew.

Christians are to walk by faith the unseen eternal will of God. And not a after the corrupted temporal flesh and blood. It simply as a rudiment of this corrupted creation will never enter the new creation.

Salvation has nothing to do with the corrupted flesh of any nation as if God was a respecter of corruption.(flesh and blood).

.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#8
#8
Beckworth said:
I agree. The principles that apply here to tithing, also apply to keeping the Sabbath day and all other practices under the old law of the Jews.
Click to expand...
What is the principle of keeping the sabbath? Hebrews explains that we enter into rest in Jesus as it relates to trusting in the finished work of the cross having obtained righteousness for us. So to observe certain days would be missing the principle. We do not tithe as a religious ceremony or observance we do it to pay the ministry bills. We do not enter into our sabbath by religiously observing a day of the week but by resting in the righteousness that is ours by faith in Jesus Christ.
 
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