THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

If you’re an alcoholic and change your mind about it, but remain in a drunken stupor, then have you really changed your mind? Nope.

Hello @Sudakar, I'm not sure what happened with the formatting while I was rushing to meet the 5 minute editing deadline in post #214 above. Sorry about that.

The good news is, I believe that the entire quote is there, even if it looks a little "off" due to the formatting (you are, of course, welcome to see the entire quote at Dr. MacArthur's website. The link I left to it in the same post will take you right there ).

~Deut

Works are not necessary for salvation. Works are not necessary for maintaining salvation. What LS avers is that works are an outpouring of salvation.

Non sequitur.

Okay, you have a different way of reading James then.

I agree somewhat, but what you are trying to do is unload metanoia.

Repentance comes from Latin and carries also the idea of "penance" "contrition" metanoia does not have this connotation at all.
The Latin Vulgate made the colossal error of translating "metanoia" as "poenitentiam agite" (do penance).

I find it ironic that the Reformers were trying to change this error and yet it still persists.

Works w/o faith is dead. Can’t be any clearer than that.

In a sense...yes

I agree with the penance idea.

Persists where?

I can change my mind I prefer warm weather over cold .. yet I may not change my location and just stay put and suffer through the winters.

Your turn...

James is saying faith without works, not the other way round.

That’s not biblical repentance. Non sequitur.

On BDF...

Yes.

I have edited my post

This is from the Scott- Liddel lexicon:

metanoevw fut. metanohvsw ; 1 aor. metenovhsa (Antipho +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. ) change one’s mind Hv 3, 7, 3; m 11:4 ( cf. Diod. S. 15, 47, 3 metenovhsen oJ dh`mo" ; 17, 5, 1; Epict. 2, 22, 35; Appian , Hann. 35 §151, Mithrid. 58 §238; Stob. , Ecl. II 113, 5 ff W .; PSI 495, 9 [258

BC ]; Jos. , Vi. 110; 262), then feel remorse, repent, be converted (in religio-ethical sense: X. , Hell. 1, 7, 19 ouj metanohvsante" u{steron euJrhvsete sfa`" aujtou;" hJmarthkovta" ta; mevgista ej" qeouv" te kai; uJma`" aujtouv" ; Plut. , Camill. 29, 3, Ag. 19, 5, Galba 6, 4, Adulat. 36 p. 74 C ; M. Ant. 8, 2; 53; Ps.- Lucian , De Salt. 84 metanoh`sai ejfÆ oi|" ejpoivhsen ; Herm. Wr. 1, 28; Dit., Or. 751, 9 [II BC ] qewrw`n ou\n uJma`" metanenohkovta" te ejpi; toi`" prohmarthmevnoi", Syll. 3 1268 II, 8 [III BC ] aJmartw;n metanovei ; PSI 495, 9 [258/7 BC ]; BGU 747 I, 11; 1024 IV, 25; PTebt. 424, 5; Is 46:8 ; Jer 8:6 ; Sir 17:24 ; 48:15 ; oft. Test. 12 Patr. [ s. index]; Philo [ s. metavnoia ]; Jos. , Bell. 5, 415, Ant. 7, 153;
320) ejn savkkw/ kai; spodw`/ m. repent in sackcloth and ashes Mt 11:21 ; Lk 10:13 . As a prerequisite for attaining the Kgdm. of God in the preaching of John the Baptist and Jesus Mt 3:2 ; 4:17 ; Mk 1:15 . As the subject of the disciples’ preaching 6:12 ; Ac 17:30 ; 26:20 . Failure to repent leads to destruction Lk 13:3 , 5 ; Mt 11:20 . Repentance saves ( cf. Phil o, Spec. Leg. 1, 239 oJ metanow`n swv/zetai ; 253) 12:41; Lk 11:32 ; cf. 15: 7, 10 ; 16:30 . m. eij" to; khvrugmav tino" repent at or because of someone’s preaching Mt 12:41 ; Lk 11:32 ( Bl-D. §207, 1; Rob. 593; s. eij" 6a). W. ejpiv tini to denote the reason repent of, because of someth. ( Charito 3, 3, 11; Ps.- Lucian , Salt. 84; M. Ant. 8, 2; 10; 53; Jo 2:13 ; Jon 3:10 ; 4:2 ; Am 7:3 , 6 ; Prayer of Manasseh [=Ode 12] 7; Philo , Virt. 180; Jos. , Ant. 7, 264; Test. Judah 15:4.— Bl-D. §235, 2) ejpi; th`/ ajkaqarsiva/ of their immorality 2 Cor 12:21 . ejpi; toi`" aJmarthvmasin of their sins 1 Cl 7:7. ejpiv w. subst. inf. foll. MPol 7:2. Also diav ti Hv 3, 7, 2. Since in m. the negative impulse of turning away is dominant, it is also used w. ajpov tino" : repent and turn away from someth. ajpo; th`" kakiva" (Jer 8:6 ) Ac 8:22 (MWilcox, The Semitisms of Ac, ’65, 102-5). ajpo; th`" ajnomiva" 1 Cl 8:3 ( quot. of unknown orig. ). Also e[k tino" Rv 2:21 b, 22 ; 9:20 f ; 16:11 . W. ejpistrevfein ejpi; to;n qeovn Ac 26:20 . m. eij" eJnovthta qeou` turn in repentance to the unity of God (which precludes all disunity) IPhld 8:1b; cf. ISm 9:1. But m. eij" to; pavqo" repent concerning the suffering (of Christ, which the Docetists deny) 5:3. W. inf. foll. Rv 16:9 . W. o{ti foll. repent because or that ( Jos. , Ant. 2,
315) Hm 10, 2, 3. W. adv. ajdistavktw" s 8, 10, 3. braduvteron s 8, 7, 3; 8, 8, 3b. puknw`" m 11:4. tacuv Hs 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 3a; 5b; 8, 10, 1; 9, 19, 2; 9, 21, 4; 9, 23, 2c. m. ejx o{lh" (th`") kardiva" repent
w. the whole heart 2 Cl 17:1; 19:1; Hv 1, 3, 2; 2, 2, 4; 3, 13, 4b; 4, 2, 5; m 5, 1, 7; 12, 6, 1; s 7:4; 8, 11, 3. m. ejx eijlikrinou`" kardiva" repent w. a sincere heart 2 Cl 9:8.—The word is found further, and used abs. ( Diod. S. 13, 53, 3; Epict. , Ench. 34; Oenomaus [time of Hadrian] in Euseb., Pr. Ev. 5, 19, 1; Philo , Mos. 2, 167 al. ; Jos. , Ant. 2, 322) Lk 17:3 f ; Ac 2:38 ; 3:19 ; Rv 2:5 a ( Vi. Aesopi I c. 85 metanovhson =take counsel with yourself), b, 16, 21; 3:3, 19; 2 Cl 8:1, 2, 3; 13:1; 15:1; 16:1; IPhld 3:2; 8:1a; ISm 4:1; Hv 1, 1, 9; 3, 3, 2; 3, 5, 5; 3, 13, 4a; 5:7; m 4, 1, 5; 7 ff ; 4, 2, 2; 4, 3, 6; 9:6; 10, 2, 4; 12, 3, 3; s 4:4; 6, 1, 3 f ; 6, 3, 6; 6, 5, 7; s 7:2; 4 f ; 8, 6, 1 ff ; 8, 7, 2 f ; 8, 8, 2; 5a; 8, 9, 2; 4; 8, 11, 1 f ; 9, 14, 1 f ; 9, 20, 4; 9, 22, 3 f ; 9, 23, 2; 5; 9, 26, 6; 8; D 10:6; 15:3; PK 3 p. 15, 11; 27.— S. also MPol 9:2; 11:1 f , in the sense repent from Christianity.—Windisch, Exc. on 2 Cor 7:10 p. 233 f ; Norden, Agn. Th. 134 ff ; AHDirksen, The NT Concept of Metanoia, Diss. Cath. Univ. of America, Washington, ’32; FPShipham, ET 46, ’35, 277-80; EKDietrich, D. Umkehr (Bekehrg. u. Busse) im AT u. im Judent. b. bes. Berücksichtigg. der ntl. Zeit ’36; HPohlmann, D. Metanoia ’38; OMichel, Ev. Theol. 5, ’38, 403-14; BPoschmann, Paenitentia secunda ’40, 1-205 (NT and Apost. Fathers); JBehm and EWürthwein, TW IV 972-1004. S. metamevlomai , end. M-M. B. 1123.*



metavnoia

metavnoia, a", hJ a change of mind ( Thu. 3, 36, 4; Polyb. 4, 66, 7; Appian , Mithrid. 16 §57; Jos. , C. Ap. 1, 274, Ant. 16, 125), remorse (as regret for shortcomings and errors: Batr. 69; Lycon the Peripatetic [III BC ] in Diog. L. 5, 66; Polyb. 18, 33, 7; Stoic. III p. 147, l. 21 f ; Cebes 10, 4; 11, 1; Plut. , Mor. 56 A ; 68 F ; 961 D , Alex. 11, 4, Mar. 10, 4; 39, 3; Charito 1, 3, 7; Appian , Liby. 52 §225; 102 §482; 116 §553; M. Ant. 8, 10; Ps.- Lucian , Calumn. 5; Jos. , Ant. 13, 314) in our lit. w. an expressly religious

The word has the same meaning in all Greek texts.. what one is called to change their mind about is derived from the context.

Look at 2 Corinthians 7. Paul tells them that a godly sorrow leads them to repentance. He scolded them in his first letter he wrote to them, of all the chaos there in their church. Abusing the Lord’s table, suing each other, allowing a member to be in their congregation who had his dad‘s wife(hoping it was step mom and not his mother, both are bad, but mother? Ewwwwww!), etc. He commended them in that their repentance brought forth actions to rectify the problems his first letter addressed. True repentance is accompanied by true change of actions.

Ok?

Still non sequitur.