CESSATIONISM AND HEALING

Just going to deal with this, because it is a perfect example of 2 things:

1. Why we need to read every word of the Bible, not just a chapter or passage!

2. Why you need to know hermeneutics, or how to interpret the Bible. You obviously don't know that:

Hermeneutics= Bible interpretation

Every line from the Bible you have quoted and then interpreted & explained, is hermeneutics.

In this case, you actually made some progress away from your faulty eisegesis and bad interpretations. You stopped quoting one proof text, and said to read the whole chapter! Bravo!

However, you really do need to read all of Isaiah to find out what it is about. From chapter 1, it is the prophet Isaiah calling to the people, to tell them how sinful they are. Isaiah 1 describes this from Start to finish.

"Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the Lord;
they have spurned the Holy Oneof Israel
and turned their backs on him." Isa. 1:4

God uses Isaiah to tell the nation of Israel that they are an evil, disobedient and wretched people. Isaiah tries to warn Israel, and point them back to righteousness and serving God. And Isaiah is Not exempt from this.

"Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.” Isaiah 6:5-7

Isaiah realizes he is also sinful, and the seraphim cleanses him with a burning coal. Every single chapter of Isaiah, and for that matter, all the prophets, is a warning about sin. Even if a chapter doesn't use those words, it is the theme and central binding idea of the book.

Isaiah 53 is a prophecy describing how Jesus will suffer in our place.

"5 He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds,
crushed because of our sins;
he endured punishment that made us well;
because of his wounds we have been healed." Isaiah 53:5.

This famous proof text of Word Faith people is about what?? About how our rebellious deeds and sins made Jesus take our punishment on the cross, to heal our sin sickness, the topic of all of Isaiah.

This chapter is NOT about us! It is not about perfect healing when you pump up your faith enough, that a puny God is forced to do your bidding and answer your prayer for healing!

Instead, it is about a sovereign God who was whipped and died on the cross to take our place so we might have eternal life.

It really is heinous to take the obvious meaning which is found in all of Isaiah, and all the Bible, and take a couple verses and claim it is about healing. Well, it is about healing our sins, which have broken and damaged us.

Finally this is the second last verse of Isaiah 53, where the purpose of the chapter, the book of Isaiah and the Bible explain it.

"Having suffered, he will reflect on his work,
he will be satisfied when he understands what he has done.
“My servant will acquit many,
for he carried their sins." Isa 53:11

Once again it is about how Jesus acquitted us of our sins! Nothing to do with physical healing, but spiritual healing for our many sins.

I challenge you to read the whole Bible, so you can find out that you have been led astray! Certainly read all of Isaiah and see what it is about. You will quickly find it is not about physical healing, but healing from our sins, through Jesus' coming sacrifice on the cross.

And since you are using bad hermeneutics, find out how to do it correctly, instead of the mess you make of the Bible.

Don't bother sending me another one of those Y/M answers. I know the Bible much better than you, studied Word Faith starting in the 1980's, and totally rejected it as a false and damaging doctrine. You don't even read Greek or Hebrew, there is nothing you can do to convince me to go back to a heresy I rejected 30 years ago![/QUOTE] Dang Angela, just straight up comes iin and sets the record straight no if and's or butts. How have you been btw?

Dang Angela, just straight up comes iin and sets the record straight no if and's or butts. How have you been btw?[/QUOTE]

I was feeling a bit better since my bad fall in my bathroom 2 1/2 weeks ago, when I got a concussion and a broken rib. Tonight I fell walking across the rug to my bed. Ifell and injured the rib again, and I have bruises everywhere. I'm considering going into assisted living. I am just too weak to care for myself.

Spiritually I am doing really well. I think I might go back to working in my PhD in theology. I did a conference on discipleship and I was totally inspired. It's what I keep telling people over and over. There are practises the Bible talks about which help us in spiritual formation, which is part of our goal as Christians. We need to learn how to practice the disciplines that draw us closer to God.

Like reading the Bible, praying, meditating, works of charity, and evangelism. I know they have helped me! So, the spirit is willing, even if the body is weak!

How are you doing? I read all your posts, and you have really grown as a Christian recently. I hope you are well!

In regards to Sudakar incorrectly implying that Christians should NOT be (physically) sick because of what is written in Isaiah 53


You go GIRL!!!!

I was feeling a bit better since my bad fall in my bathroom 2 1/2 weeks ago, when I got a concussion and a broken rib. Tonight I fell walking across the rug to my bed. Ifell and injured the rib again, and I have bruises everywhere. I'm considering going into assisted living. I am just too weak to care for myself.

Spiritually I am doing really well. I think I might go back to working in my PhD in theology. I did a conference on discipleship and I was totally inspired. It's what I keep telling people over and over. There are practises the Bible talks about which help us in spiritual formation, which is part of our goal as Christians. We need to learn how to practice the disciplines that draw us closer to God.

Like reading the Bible, praying, meditating, works of charity, and evangelism. I know they have helped me! So, the spirit is willing, even if the body is weak!

How are you doing? I read all your posts, and you have really grown as a Christian recently. I hope you are well![/QUOTE]
Well if it will be easier on your body I would say an assisted living home would be a good idea but also make sure (as if I need to tell you) that go to God about it. I actually was not aware of your accident I am so sorry to hear that, I had a seizure a couple months ago but nothing like that.
I think if you want to pursue your teaching and discipleship you should do it full steam ahead
And thank you I ahev been meditating with God quite a lot recently, I mean I normally do anyways but I am seeking a deeper closer bond with him, going in areas to be drawn too that I have been avoiding and confronting the issues within my own person.

I was feeling a bit better since my bad fall in my bathroom 2 1/2 weeks ago, when I got a concussion and a broken rib. Tonight I fell walking across the rug to my bed. Ifell and injured the rib again, and I have bruises everywhere. I'm considering going into assisted living. I am just too weak to care for myself.
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God bless you Angela. Our prayers are with you. Do you have family or church mates in your area? God willing you can get some assistance in this troubling time.

My husband is here, and has taken over a lot of my jobs. Well, except for cooking. My church has already let me know they are here for me. Thanks for caring!

So Sudakar, before berating all of us for our lack of faith, or shall I say rather, please regale us with all of these "impossible" feats you've done by the Spirit of Christ. I suspect that you've never had a cold or a toothache for decades. If you have raised any dead people don't hesitate to mention those as well!

Iḿ sorry about your fall...I hope you are feeling better physically, and that you will recover quickly and get your strength back.

It is good to know that spiritually, you are doing well...

Take care of yourself...go slow.

Little faith has consequences...I think I would like some more information on this statement...

Thanks...Iĺl wait for your response, Sudakar...

Your statement is actually the very opposite of what CHRIST said.

I was wondering how you have authority over CHRIST´s WORD....

He actually hasn't returned to this thread in a bit, I won't lie I was interested to see how he would respond to Angela. Though I wouldn't recommend him trying to win any debate with her

Then where did those doctors get their knowledge from?

Uh,you are the one claiming God does not heal his people.

You need to scratch that one from your workbook.

The problem is,about 2/3 of what he says is correct...but he cancels out the good with "you are stupid" comments.
God frowns on our lack of charachter.

When Daniel was asked if he was spared supernaturally from the lions,his reply was "in as much as He found no fault in me......"
Character matters

The OP is about Christ's mediatorship for healing from God. But many seem to do away with it.

Visiting a doctor is different from denying Christ's mediatorship to bring healing from God.

Trusting God apart from Christ's atonement is not faith.

Denying Christ's atonement as central to one's life isn't engaging.

Just going to deal with this, because it is a perfect example of 2 things:

1. Why we need to read every word of the Bible, not just a chapter or passage!

2. Why you need to know hermeneutics, or how to interpret the Bible. You obviously don't know that:

Hermeneutics= Bible interpretation

Every line from the Bible you have quoted and then interpreted & explained, is hermeneutics.

In this case, you actually made some progress away from your faulty eisegesis and bad interpretations. You stopped quoting one proof text, and said to read the whole chapter! Bravo!

However, you really do need to read all of Isaiah to find out what it is about. From chapter 1, it is the prophet Isaiah calling to the people, to tell them how sinful they are. Isaiah 1 describes this from Start to finish.

"Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the Lord;
they have spurned the Holy Oneof Israel
and turned their backs on him." Isa. 1:4

God uses Isaiah to tell the nation of Israel that they are an evil, disobedient and wretched people. Isaiah tries to warn Israel, and point them back to righteousness and serving God. And Isaiah is Not exempt from this.

"Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.” Isaiah 6:5-7

Isaiah realizes he is also sinful, and the seraphim cleanses him with a burning coal. Every single chapter of Isaiah, and for that matter, all the prophets, is a warning about sin. Even if a chapter doesn't use those words, it is the theme and central binding idea of the book.

Isaiah 53 is a prophecy describing how Jesus will suffer in our place.

"5 He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds,
crushed because of our sins;
he endured punishment that made us well;
because of his wounds we have been healed." Isaiah 53:5.

This famous proof text of Word Faith people is about what?? About how our rebellious deeds and sins made Jesus take our punishment on the cross, to heal our sin sickness, the topic of all of Isaiah.

This chapter is NOT about us! It is not about perfect healing when you pump up your faith enough, that a puny God is forced to do your bidding and answer your prayer for healing!

Instead, it is about a sovereign God who was whipped and died on the cross to take our place so we might have eternal life.

It really is heinous to take the obvious meaning which is found in all of Isaiah, and all the Bible, and take a couple verses and claim it is about healing. Well, it is about healing our sins, which have broken and damaged us.

Finally this is the second last verse of Isaiah 53, where the purpose of the chapter, the book of Isaiah and the Bible explain it.

"Having suffered, he will reflect on his work,
he will be satisfied when he understands what he has done.
“My servant will acquit many,
for he carried their sins." Isa 53:11

Once again it is about how Jesus acquitted us of our sins! Nothing to do with physical healing, but spiritual healing for our many sins.

I challenge you to read the whole Bible, so you can find out that you have been led astray! Certainly read all of Isaiah and see what it is about. You will quickly find it is not about physical healing, but healing from our sins, through Jesus' coming sacrifice on the cross.

And since you are using bad hermeneutics, find out how to do it correctly, instead of the mess you make of the Bible.

Don't bother sending me another one of those Y/M answers. I know the Bible much better than you, studied Word Faith starting in the 1980's, and totally rejected it as a false and damaging doctrine. You don't even read Greek or Hebrew, there is nothing you can do to convince me to go back to a heresy I rejected 30 years ago![/QUOTE]

Christ's atonement is central to christian life. Denying it isn't christian.

If you are healed apart from faith in atonement, you are Christless wrt healing.

Character + denial of Christ's atonement = Zero.