Will the mark alone send a person to eternal damnation?

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Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
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According to verse 9 it will not.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,


Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Now you are on shaky ground..
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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Yes what you say is true. Men follow other men which leads to death, only those who follow Christ Jesus will never see death.

But Revelation 13 is very specific and detailed. It isn't talking about something esoteric and is giving believers


Daniel, 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation contain prophesies given for believers to be able to navigate through the different tactics the enemy will use throughout the coming ages.

Listed in the above posts (#395, #391, #379, #378, #376, #374) are some of the tactics and prophesy fulfillments of the Roman Catholic Church (2nd Beast) throughout the middle ages.
But, this period is no more! For example the tactic of inquisition is over, the tactic of excommunication (preventing those to buy and sell) is over.

The oppressive tactics of Church (2nd Beast) and State (1st Beast) is now not!

Today those who refuse to be marked with the sign of the cross and those who refuse to worship the image of the man 666 on the cross no longer risk their lives. They are no longer turned over to the State (1st Beast) to be oppressed , imprisoned and sentenced. THIS PERIOD is OVER! The (1st or 2nd) Beast is now not!!!

We are now in the Whore of Babylon Period. Where the Beast once was, now is not, and yet will come again!!!

The Whore of Babylon Period is this:
SECOND VATICAN's DECREE ON ECUMENISM: "The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council." "The Sacred Council exhorts all the Catholic faithful to recognize the signs of the times and to take an active and intelligent part in the work of ecumenism. The term "ecumenical movement" indicates the initiatives and activities planned and undertaken, according to the various needs of the Church and as opportunities offer, to promote Christian unity."
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...ecree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

Today you have many denominations that once broke away from the Roman Catholic Church (2nd Beast) now coming back into discussions, agreements, partial communion and even full communion with the Roman Catholic Church (Whore of Babylon).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_communion#Full_and_partial_communion

She, The Roman Catholic Church, has changed her tactics in the 20th century.

In the era of the Whore of Babylon, the image of the beast remains, the mark of the beast remains, the man of lawlessness remains, the unholy trinity remains, but they are not forced upon the people anymore. Unity in bringing the different chistian denominations and sects back under the reign of the Papacy, the man of Lawlessness. Unity with Roman Catholic Church is bringing the man-made rituals of the Roman Catholic Church such as Lent, ash wednesday, Nicene Creed, and more, back into protestant denominations.
https://www.americamagazine.org/fai...urches-are-embracing-some-catholic-traditions

Yes, all those churches that site Nicene Creed, are professing to be under the Roman Catholic Pope.
In reciting the Nicene Creed one professes to be under the "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Vatican I decrees that Full Apostolic Authority lies under the succession of Peter, which is the Roman Papacy.
Read SESSION 4: 18 July 1870
Chapter 4: "That apostolic primacy which the Roman pontiff possesses as successor of Peter, the prince of the apostles, includes also the supreme power of teaching."
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/1869-1869,_Concilium_Vaticanum_I,_Documenta_Omnia,_EN.pdf

What Revelation is telling us is that an apostasy will arise and remain until Christ's Return. This apostasy, at its core, is the Roman Catholic Church. 2 Thessalonians 2 tells us that God permits this apostasy to perpetuate so that 'a strong delusion exists for those who refuse to love the truth and so be saved'.

What Revelation and Daniel are prophesying is that the Roman Catholic Church can NEVER be reformed! NEVER!

We must ALWAYS rebel against the Roman Catholic Church. We must always protest against her, fully!

BOTTOM LINE: Any Church that is having cooperation, compromise, or partial communion with Roman Catholic Church is FALSE, and are under the umbrella of the Whore of Babylon
Hi thanks. Its not a sign as a wonder .The evil generation natural faithless man seeks after them

The book of Revelation . . .the last book in the bible is very specific and detailed. Out of all the other books in the Bible it has words and metaphors used to bring the gospel from all the books that are needed to compare the unseen spiritual understanding of faith to the same, faith to faith..

The book of Revelation or last chapter in the Bible cannot stand on its own literal interpretation "stuff for Hollywood" as in who needs faith the atheist's religious foundation..

Revelation looks back to all the metaphors and parables used to help us understand what it means to walk by faith

The whole book is written as a parable that hides the gospel understanding. In the opening statement .The Holy Spirit makes it clear that not only was it inspired by the Holy Spirit but the fact he has lovely revealed it is "signified" .

The signified language or tongue of God. "Parables". One of tools need to rightly dividing in order to teach us how to walk by faith .

If the foundation is destroyed then the opening statement verse 1 is made to no effect. And signs and wonders Christian can begin wondering literalizing the signified understanding. We must be careful how we hear by faith . God's understanding to us.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Without parable Christ spoke not. And the book of Revelation is not stranger. ..

The "mark" is the Word of God's law .The letter "death" . you shall surely die. . what he declares comes to pass every time.

No need to make the gospel about the temporal things of this world . Food and clothing that come with the gospel .A witness the gospel has worked. Cain saw not value in the gospel. Murdered the first martyr Abel .

Why destroy the foundation of the doctrine. "Mark my word . . what I say will come to pass." God does not bargain with the devil. Cain sold his birth rite seeing no value in the things not seen . We buy the gospel truth and sell it not .

And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.Genesis 4: 13-15

Cain found no sabbath rest as his brother Abel did.

Satan a murderer from that beginning. He hates all flesh . The serpent in judgment has no legs to walk on. The lame crawl Walk is a word used throughout the bible to represent "understanding faith" . How can two walk together unless in agreement to one unseen . Satan the lame one has no way to brining the messages of his lies . He is forced to get behind men, working his lies through them . A constant reminder of his powerless. Kill them all .out of sight out of mind.

I would think Christians do not desire to wrestle against flesh and blood. They have the treasure of the power of God to help them overcome working in them not of them . It would seem to represent the old name that he previously named his bride as a city, Israel .The new name (Christian) would seem more befitting to a bride made up of all nations of the world .The heavenly Jerusalem . He promised Israel a more befitting name and anouched it in Acts ..

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

As Jacob (deceiver)he had no power no God. Israel, the born again name
 
Feb 1, 2020
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The mark itself is just a mark. It is that the mark and its placement on the body will show what faction you belong to. It is like tattoos issue in general, a tattoo , a branding, and other measures have been done in history and the concept is always the same they essentially mark one's allegiance and subservience.

It is kind of a moot point though because no Christian is going to take the mark of the beast, only the extraordinarily wicked of the last generation will take the mark, deceived and cursed with literally Apocalyptic curses. Satan that old dragon, the beast that is their false last kingdom, the spirit of the slut named Babylon, the beast that is the Man of Sin, their blasphemous final idol, and all those in their massive army of final darkness shall take the mark of the beast and all that have this mark will be pretty utterly crushed by the good angels, by the virgin saints of the first resurrection, and by Lord Jesus coming in the clouds at the right hand of power. Praise Jesus.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
Yes what you say is true. Men follow other men which leads to death, only those who follow Christ Jesus will never see death.

But Revelation 13 is very specific and detailed. It isn't talking about something esoteric and is giving believers


Daniel, 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation contain prophesies given for believers to be able to navigate through the different tactics the enemy will use throughout the coming ages.

Listed in the above posts (#395, #391, #379, #378, #376, #374) are some of the tactics and prophesy fulfillments of the Roman Catholic Church (2nd Beast) throughout the middle ages.
But, this period is no more! For example the tactic of inquisition is over, the tactic of excommunication (preventing those to buy and sell) is over.

The oppressive tactics of Church (2nd Beast) and State (1st Beast) is now not!

Today those who refuse to be marked with the sign of the cross and those who refuse to worship the image of the man 666 on the cross no longer risk their lives. They are no longer turned over to the State (1st Beast) to be oppressed , imprisoned and sentenced. THIS PERIOD is OVER! The (1st or 2nd) Beast is now not!!!

We are now in the Whore of Babylon Period. Where the Beast once was, now is not, and yet will come again!!!

The Whore of Babylon Period is this:
SECOND VATICAN's DECREE ON ECUMENISM: "The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council." "The Sacred Council exhorts all the Catholic faithful to recognize the signs of the times and to take an active and intelligent part in the work of ecumenism. The term "ecumenical movement" indicates the initiatives and activities planned and undertaken, according to the various needs of the Church and as opportunities offer, to promote Christian unity."
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...ecree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

Today you have many denominations that once broke away from the Roman Catholic Church (2nd Beast) now coming back into discussions, agreements, partial communion and even full communion with the Roman Catholic Church (Whore of Babylon).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_communion#Full_and_partial_communion

She, The Roman Catholic Church, has changed her tactics in the 20th century.

In the era of the Whore of Babylon, the image of the beast remains, the mark of the beast remains, the man of lawlessness remains, the unholy trinity remains, but they are not forced upon the people anymore. Unity in bringing the different chistian denominations and sects back under the reign of the Papacy, the man of Lawlessness. Unity with Roman Catholic Church is bringing the man-made rituals of the Roman Catholic Church such as Lent, ash wednesday, Nicene Creed, and more, back into protestant denominations.
https://www.americamagazine.org/fai...urches-are-embracing-some-catholic-traditions

Yes, all those churches that site Nicene Creed, are professing to be under the Roman Catholic Pope.
In reciting the Nicene Creed one professes to be under the "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Vatican I decrees that Full Apostolic Authority lies under the succession of Peter, which is the Roman Papacy.
Read SESSION 4: 18 July 1870
Chapter 4: "That apostolic primacy which the Roman pontiff possesses as successor of Peter, the prince of the apostles, includes also the supreme power of teaching."
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/1869-1869,_Concilium_Vaticanum_I,_Documenta_Omnia,_EN.pdf

What Revelation is telling us is that an apostasy will arise and remain until Christ's Return. This apostasy, at its core, is the Roman Catholic Church. 2 Thessalonians 2 tells us that God permits this apostasy to perpetuate so that 'a strong delusion exists for those who refuse to love the truth and so be saved'.

What Revelation and Daniel are prophesying is that the Roman Catholic Church can NEVER be reformed! NEVER!

We must ALWAYS rebel against the Roman Catholic Church. We must always protest against her, fully!

BOTTOM LINE: Any Church that is having cooperation, compromise, or partial communion with Roman Catholic Church is FALSE, and are under the umbrella of the Whore of Babylon

And Prejudice is SIN, and you are Prejudice against CATHOLICS.

Here is what you are, that one that that tells the poor in spirit to "Sit hear by my footstool."

James 2:3-6 (HCSB)
3 If you look with favor on the man wearing the fine clothes and say, “Sit here in a good place,” and yet you say to the poor man, “Stand over there,” or, “Sit here on the floor by my footstool,”
4 haven’t you discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my dear brothers: Didn’t God choose the poor in this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that He has promised to those who love Him?
6 Yet you dishonored that poor man. Don’t the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
And Prejudice is SIN, and you are Prejudice against CATHOLICS.

Here is what you are, that one that that tells the poor in spirit to "Sit hear by my footstool."

James 2:3-6 (HCSB)
3 If you look with favor on the man wearing the fine clothes and say, “Sit here in a good place,” and yet you say to the poor man, “Stand over there,” or, “Sit here on the floor by my footstool,”
4 haven’t you discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5 Listen, my dear brothers: Didn’t God choose the poor in this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that He has promised to those who love Him?
6 Yet you dishonored that poor man. Don’t the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts?
Definition of Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

I have clearly given reason.

Here is more reasons the Roman Catholic Church habitually twists scripture and makes decrees that are antithetical to God's Word.
The follow, in RED, is taken directly from Vatican I Council.
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/1869-1869,_Concilium_Vaticanum_I,_Documenta_Omnia,_EN.pdf
SESSION 2 : 6 January 1870
9. I firmly hold that
❍ purgatory exists
❍ the saints reigning with Christ are to be honoured and prayed to
❍ their relics should be venerated.
10. I resolutely assert that images of 1. Christ and 2. the ever virgin mother of God, and likewise those of 3. the other saints, are to be kept and retained, and that due honour and reverence is to be shown them.
This true catholic faith, outside of which none can be saved,


1) purgatory does not exist
2) praying to so called saints is idolatry
3) veneration of relics is idolatry
4) declaration of the ever virginity of Mary is false,
5) It is idolotry to keep carved images, Exodus 20:4-6

Chapter 2 On revelation (from Vatican I Council)
9. In consequence, it is not permissible for anyone to interpret holy scripture in a sense contrary to this, or indeed against the unanimous consent of the fathers.


1) Catholic Church forbids me to interpret holy scripture. Instead they declare that I must trust them. They are liars and deceivers.

Chapter 2. On the permanence of the primacy of blessed Peter in the Roman pontiffs (from Vatican I Council)
5. Therefore, ❍ if anyone says that ■ it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that ■ the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema.


I fully believe the Roman Pontiffs to be false prophets. In fact they are the succession of the Man of Lawlessness. The Catholic Church therefore detests me and places on me a formal curse.

Perhaps you VCO agree with the decrees of the Vatican I Council. But if you do not then the Catholic Church declares you are not saved, and detests you too..
 
Aug 14, 2019
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interesting that the mark will go in your right hand or in your forehead. Well, some people are missing their right hand or their entire right arm, so then it would have to go in your forehead.
When someone does the right thing it's a work of the right hand. At that time the conscience will have been reformed to the morals of the beast. A new law will be written on the heart and breaking it will cause guilt, obedience will be rewarded with a sense of well being.
The conscience is the sanctuary where God speaks to man. The mark on the forehead means the beast is the voice heard in that interior sanctuary judging the rightness or wrongness of every deed.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
Definition of Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
. . .

I fully believe the Roman Pontiffs to be false prophets. In fact they are the succession of the Man of Lawlessness. The Catholic Church therefore detests me and places on me a formal curse.

Perhaps you VCO agree with the decrees of the Vatican I Council. But if you do not then the Catholic Church declares you are not saved, and detests you too..

QUOTE:

THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM:
. . .

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."
. . .

107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."
. . .
II. "I Know Whom I Have Believed"16

To believe in God alone

150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.17
To believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God

151 For a Christian, believing in God cannot be separated from believing in the One he sent, his "beloved Son", in whom the Father is "well pleased"; God tells us to listen to him.18 The Lord himself said to his disciples: "Believe in God, believe also in me."19 We can believe in Jesus Christ because he is himself God, the Word made flesh: "No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known."20 Because he "has seen the Father", Jesus Christ is the only one who knows him and can reveal him.21
To believe in the Holy Spirit

152 One cannot believe in Jesus Christ without sharing in his Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to men who Jesus is. For "no one can say "Jesus is Lord", except by the Holy Spirit",22 who "searches everything, even the depths of God. . No one comprehends the thoughts of God, except the Spirit of God."23 Only God knows God completely: we believe in the Holy Spirit because he is God.

The Church never ceases to proclaim her faith in one only God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
16 - 2 Tim 1:12,

17 - Jer 17:5-6; Ps 40:5; 146:3-4,

18 - Mk 1:11; 9:7,
19 - Jn 14:1,

20 - Jn 1:18,

21 - Jn 6:46; Mt 11:27,

22 - I Cor 12:3,
23 - I Cor 2:10-11.

. . .

156 What moves us to believe is not the fact that revealed truths appear as true and intelligible in the light of our natural reason: we believe "because of the authority of God himself who reveals them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived". So "that the submission of our faith might nevertheless be in accordance with reason, God willed that external proofs of his Revelation should be joined to the internal helps of the Holy Spirit." Thus the miracles of Christ and the saints, prophecies, the Church's growth and holiness, and her fruitfulness and stability "are the most certain signs of divine Revelation, adapted to the intelligence of all"; they are "motives of credibility" (motiva credibilitatis), which show that the assent of faith is "by no means a blind impulse of the mind".

. . .

162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man.
. . .

178 We must believe in no one but God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
179 Faith is a supernatural gift from God. In order to believe, man needs the interior helps of the Holy Spirit.
. . .
781 Conscience enables one to assume responsibility for the acts performed. If man commits evil, the just judgment of conscience can remain within him as the witness to the universal truth of the good, at the same time as the evil of his particular choice. the verdict of the judgment of conscience remains a pledge of hope and mercy. In attesting to the fault committed, it calls to mind the forgiveness that must be asked, the good that must still be practiced, and the virtue that must be constantly cultivated with the grace of God:
. . .

1847 "God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us." To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

END QUOTE

Now may I suggest that YOU repent of the false statements and untruths that you have been spreading about our Christian Brothers the Catholics. As far as I know, every Catholic still has to study this Catechism and take a test on it, before he or she can be Confirmed in the Catholic Church. Do I believe they have some false ideas in the Catholic Church? Sure, BUT SO DO THE PROTESTANTS. And if your denominational bigotry was taught to you by your Church, then YOUR CHURCH too, has some serious false teachings. Do I believe there is such a thing as a PERFECT denominational Church that has EVERYTHING RIGHT? NO! I believe fallible human beings, never have been perfect, and will not be Perfect until we get that infallible, glorified body when HE calls us out of this earth.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
QUOTE:

THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM:
. . .


105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."
. . .


107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."
. . .
II. "I Know Whom I Have Believed"16


To believe in God alone

150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.17
To believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God


151 For a Christian, believing in God cannot be separated from believing in the One he sent, his "beloved Son", in whom the Father is "well pleased"; God tells us to listen to him.18 The Lord himself said to his disciples: "Believe in God, believe also in me."19 We can believe in Jesus Christ because he is himself God, the Word made flesh: "No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known."20 Because he "has seen the Father", Jesus Christ is the only one who knows him and can reveal him.21
To believe in the Holy Spirit


152 One cannot believe in Jesus Christ without sharing in his Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to men who Jesus is. For "no one can say "Jesus is Lord", except by the Holy Spirit",22 who "searches everything, even the depths of God. . No one comprehends the thoughts of God, except the Spirit of God."23 Only God knows God completely: we believe in the Holy Spirit because he is God.

The Church never ceases to proclaim her faith in one only God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
16 - 2 Tim 1:12,


17 - Jer 17:5-6; Ps 40:5; 146:3-4,

18 - Mk 1:11; 9:7,
19 - Jn 14:1,


20 - Jn 1:18,

21 - Jn 6:46; Mt 11:27,

22 - I Cor 12:3,
23 - I Cor 2:10-11.


. . .

156 What moves us to believe is not the fact that revealed truths appear as true and intelligible in the light of our natural reason: we believe "because of the authority of God himself who reveals them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived". So "that the submission of our faith might nevertheless be in accordance with reason, God willed that external proofs of his Revelation should be joined to the internal helps of the Holy Spirit." Thus the miracles of Christ and the saints, prophecies, the Church's growth and holiness, and her fruitfulness and stability "are the most certain signs of divine Revelation, adapted to the intelligence of all"; they are "motives of credibility" (motiva credibilitatis), which show that the assent of faith is "by no means a blind impulse of the mind".

. . .

162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man.
. . .


178 We must believe in no one but God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
179 Faith is a supernatural gift from God. In order to believe, man needs the interior helps of the Holy Spirit.
. . .
781 Conscience enables one to assume responsibility for the acts performed. If man commits evil, the just judgment of conscience can remain within him as the witness to the universal truth of the good, at the same time as the evil of his particular choice. the verdict of the judgment of conscience remains a pledge of hope and mercy. In attesting to the fault committed, it calls to mind the forgiveness that must be asked, the good that must still be practiced, and the virtue that must be constantly cultivated with the grace of God:
. . .


1847 "God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us." To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

END QUOTE

Now may I suggest that YOU repent of the false statements and untruths that you have been spreading about our Christian Brothers the Catholics. As far as I know, every Catholic still has to study this Catechism and take a test on it, before he or she can be Confirmed in the Catholic Church. Do I believe they have some false ideas in the Catholic Church? Sure, BUT SO DO THE PROTESTANTS. And if your denominational bigotry was taught to you by your Church, then YOUR CHURCH too, has some serious false teachings. Do I believe there is such a thing as a PERFECT denominational Church that has EVERYTHING RIGHT? NO! I believe fallible human beings, never have been perfect, and will not be Perfect until we get that infallible, glorified body when HE calls us out of this earth.
Matthew 24:23-26
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
 
Apr 9, 2020
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This is another dispensationalist heresy that has spread across most of the church. The mark of the mark of the beast can only be understood by counting the number 666.
The mark isn’t a physical mark, it isn’t even a literal mark, it is a CHARACTERISTIC.

Example: What is the mark of a good Christian? Well many things. Love, joy, peace, long suffering etc. All of those are marks of a true Christian.
If there's no physical mark, why would the bible say "on their forehead or on their hand". To me, it sounds like there will be some kind of physical mark, which clearly identifies those who are a part of the Antichrist beast system.

If there was to be no physical mark, then we could say that the mark of the beast has been around since Cain killed his brother Abel.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
113
Matthew 24:23-26
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
In the Early 90's there was a Guru out doing New Age Seminars out in the desert of California, and CLAIMING HE WAS THE REINCARNATION OF CHRIST.

‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’, is a specific Prophecy about Jehovah Witnesses. They claim Jesus Christ has already return spiritually, and DENY physical RETURN. They claim HE indwells the Watchtower Publishing building to MAKE SURE everything Published there is EQUAL TO THE WORD OF GOD.

You REALLY should study Prophecy, before you open your mouth and insert FOOT again. You have Falsely Accused one of the Churches that Christ walks around their Lampstand and six others, and they are the TYPE of Church that was at:

Revelation 2:12-14 (KJV)
12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

STILL CHRIST RECOGNIZED THEM and Walks around THEIR LAMPSTAND.

I suggest YOU repent, and go apologize to every CATHOLIC you KNOW.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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In the Early 90's there was a Guru out doing New Age Seminars out in the desert of California, and CLAIMING HE WAS THE REINCARNATION OF CHRIST.

‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’, is a specific Prophecy about Jehovah Witnesses. They claim Jesus Christ has already return spiritually, and DENY physical RETURN. They claim HE indwells the Watchtower Publishing building to MAKE SURE everything Published there is EQUAL TO THE WORD OF GOD.
You make an excellent point, with the Jehovah Witnesses, but then you are blind to the fact that this excellent point also applies perfectly to the Roman Catholic Church.

The Roman Catholic Church performs transubstantiation:
(especially in the Roman Catholic Church) the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining.

The Catholic Church is a temple. And so they have an altar representing the Holy Place where the Priest performs the transubstantiation sacrifice producing the actual body and blood of Christ. Then the left over pieces of the Eucharistic Host (The actual Body of Christ) is placed into the Most Holy Place ( called the Tabernacle).

Therefore, The Roman Catholic Church is proclaiming, ""He is in the inner rooms."

You REALLY should study Prophecy, before you open your mouth and insert FOOT again.
Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
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You make an excellent point, with the Jehovah Witnesses, but then you are blind to the fact that this excellent point also applies perfectly to the Roman Catholic Church.

The Roman Catholic Church performs transubstantiation:
(especially in the Roman Catholic Church) the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining.

The Catholic Church is a temple. And so they have an altar representing the Holy Place where the Priest performs the transubstantiation sacrifice producing the actual body and blood of Christ. Then the left over pieces of the Eucharistic Host (The actual Body of Christ) is placed into the Most Holy Place ( called the Tabernacle).

Therefore, The Roman Catholic Church is proclaiming, ""He is in the inner rooms."



Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.



YOU HAVE TOTALLY MISAPPLIED MAT. 5:22.

I am not saying they do not has some FALSE TEACHING, but that is NOT where CHRIST HIMSELF PUTS THE LINE.


Luke 12:8-10 (ESV)
8 “And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God,
9 but the one who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God.
10 And
everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.



I have met some BORN AGAIN Catholics, and their Focus is on what CHRIST DID, and HE DID IT ALL, and ignore false teaching, like elevating Mary. Some of them are my PERSON FRIENDS. One owns a Body Shop. I gave him a NASB Study BIBLE. Two or Three times a week, he goes out looking for Transients traveling through town, and offers time a bed to sleep in, a shower, meals, IF THEY WILL AGREE TO DO A ONE HOUR BIBLE STUDY (using the BIBLE I gave him), the last hour before bedtime. He then offers them one or two days of sanding work in his body shop, at minimum wages, to help get them on their way. YES, he is a serious Catholic, and DOING WITNESSING Ministry, AND PROVIDING NEEDS TO THE POOR, but he does not believe in worshiping Mary like some Catholics do. YES he too gets some People to confess CHRIST is their LORD.

I have TWO Priests that are friends of mine, both are BORN AGAIN, and they TEACH CHRIST CORRECTLY, and again they do not focus on Mary. I asked one of them why he did not leave the Church, and he said, "I AM RIGHT WHERE GOD WANTS ME, who else will teach the truth to them." I attended a couple of his services, one Funeral, and one regular Mass, and I told him His sermons sounds like a Baptist Minister. So the Catholic Church through the efforts of the Born Again Believers are getting some People SAVED.


AND ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS THROW THEM UNDER THE BUS.

Revelation 2:1 (HCSB)
1 “Write to the angel of the church in Ephesus: “The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand and
who walks among the seven gold lampstands says:


1 Timothy 5:21 (HCSB)
21 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels to observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing out of favoritism.

Now TELL me WHY you should not repent of your DENOMINATIONAL BIGOTRY ? ? ?
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
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YOU HAVE TOTALLY MISAPPLIED MAT. 5:22.
One, you definitely come off as angry with me.
Two, you accuse me of saying foolish things, which is to imply I am a fool.

I am not saying they do not has some FALSE TEACHING, but that is NOT where CHRIST HIMSELF PUTS THE LINE.


Luke 12:8-10 (ESV)
8 “And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God,
9 but the one who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God.
10 And
everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.



I have met some BORN AGAIN Catholics, and their Focus is on what CHRIST DID, and HE DID IT ALL, and ignore false teaching, like elevating Mary. Some of them are my PERSON FRIENDS. One owns a Body Shop. I gave him a NASB Study BIBLE. Two or Three times a week, he goes out looking for Transients traveling through town, and offers time a bed to sleep in, a shower, meals, IF THEY WILL AGREE TO DO A ONE HOUR BIBLE STUDY (using the BIBLE I gave him), the last hour before bedtime. He then offers them one or two days of sanding work in his body shop, at minimum wages, to help get them on their way. YES, he is a serious Catholic, and DOING WITNESSING Ministry, AND PROVIDING NEEDS TO THE POOR, but he does not believe in worshiping Mary like some Catholics do. YES he too gets some People to confess CHRIST is their LORD.

I have TWO Priests that are friends of mine, both are BORN AGAIN, and they TEACH CHRIST CORRECTLY, and again they do not focus on Mary. I asked one of them why he did not leave the Church, and he said, "I AM RIGHT WHERE GOD WANTS ME, who else will teach the truth to them." I attended a couple of his services, one Funeral, and one regular Mass, and I told him His sermons sounds like a Baptist Minister. So the Catholic Church through the efforts of the Born Again Believers are getting some People SAVED.

AND ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS THROW THEM UNDER THE BUS.
So this is what you do, you judge others by your own standards. You judge your catholic friends as Saved (people you obviously have a personal relationship and bias towards), and you accuse and shame and judge me as condemned.

I have not accused nor condemned all Catholics (although you think I have). Neither have I accused nor condemned anyone one specifically. I am concerned for their salvation of course, however, I am concerned for everyone's salvation.

Revelation 2:1 (HCSB)
1 “Write to the angel of the church in Ephesus: “The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand and
who walks among the seven gold lampstands says:


1 Timothy 5:21 (HCSB)
21 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels to observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing out of favoritism.

Now TELL me WHY you should not repent of your DENOMINATIONAL BIGOTRY ? ? ?


This is not how you bring people to true repentance, by accusing them. You share the gospel truths with them, and you love them, but you do not accuse them nor shame them.
For Satan is the accuser, and Satan wants us to live in shame for he himself is in shame.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
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YOU HAVE TOTALLY MISAPPLIED MAT. 5:22.
I forgot a point:
One, you definitely come off as angry with me.
Two, you insult me by calling me a bigot, a derogatory term.
Three, you accuse me of saying foolish things, which is to imply I am a fool.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
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113
I forgot a point:
One, you definitely come off as angry with me.
Two, you insult me by calling me a bigot, a derogatory term.
Three, you accuse me of saying foolish things, which is to imply I am a fool.

IF THE SHOE FITS.
 

Prycejosh1987

Active member
Jul 19, 2020
953
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Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
It goes to show for something like this to happen, God would have to be absolutely livid. It goes to show how much God hates evil doing and sins, and these people that are tormented in Gods presence would to of had to deserve it. God is not sending someone to hell that is good in his eyes, the opposite is true to say the least.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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It goes to show for something like this to happen, God would have to be absolutely livid. It goes to show how much God hates evil doing and sins, and these people that are tormented in Gods presence would to of had to deserve it. God is not sending someone to hell that is good in his eyes, the opposite is true to say the least.
Yep. God's people don't and never will have the mark of the beast.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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Yep. God's people don't and never will have the mark of the beast.
666 the number of man is the mark or identity of unconverted mankind. The mark of Cain.

When a person receives the seal of salvation on their forehead the mark disappears.

No literal sign are given. Tts the generation of Cain that does what by sight. Called the evil faithless generation.

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
666 the number of man is the mark or identity of unconverted mankind. The mark of Cain.

When a person receives the seal of salvation on their forehead the mark disappears.

No literal sign are given. Tts the generation of Cain that does what by sight. Called the evil faithless generation.

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Count the number of the beast and then you will understand.