Not By Works

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J

John146

Senior Member
#137,604
Jan 13, 2016
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#137,604
BillG said:
As I said irrelevant.

They were still saved.

Either way they were saved?
Click to expand...
If one honestly read through the Bible without any outside influence, one would have to conclude those after the cross have something better.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#137,606
Oct 14, 2013
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#137,606
John146 said:
Lol, we weren’t in Christ before time began, but the promises.🤦‍♂️
Click to expand...



Revelation 13:4-9 (HCSB)
4 They worshiped the dragon because he gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to wage war against him?”
5 A mouth was given to him to speak boasts and blasphemies. He was also given authority to act for 42 months.
6 He began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme His name and His dwelling—those who dwell in heaven.
7 And he was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. He was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation.
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
9 If anyone has an ear, he should listen:


WHEN WERE OUR NAMES WERE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE ? ? ?

You had better get on your knees as soon as YOU REALIZE GOD IS AN ETERNAL BEING, ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFUL, OMNIPRESENT, HE SPEAKS and EVERYTHING HE SAYS WILL HAPPEN as if IT ALREADY HAS HAPPENED. You are trying to put mortal men's Characteristics on GOD ALMIGHTY.

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 20:15 (HCSB)
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” {even Before Time Began ⮵}


See how little you KNOW? You have really got to Study MORE.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,607
Jan 13, 2016
16,631
3,533
113
#137,607
VCO said:
Revelation 13:4-9 (HCSB)
4 They worshiped the dragon because he gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to wage war against him?”
5 A mouth was given to him to speak boasts and blasphemies. He was also given authority to act for 42 months.
6 He began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme His name and His dwelling—those who dwell in heaven.
7 And he was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. He was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation.
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
9 If anyone has an ear, he should listen:


WHEN WERE OUR NAMES WERE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE ? ? ?

You had better get on your knees as soon as YOU REALIZE GOD IS AN ETERNAL BEING, ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFUL, OMNIPRESENT, HE SPEAKS and EVERYTHING HE SAYS WILL HAPPEN as if IT ALREADY HAS HAPPENED. You are trying to put mortal men's Characteristics on GOD ALMIGHTY.

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 20:15 (HCSB)
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” {even Before Time Began ⮵}


See how little you KNOW? You have really got to Study MORE.
Click to expand...
Your private interpretation...

Note, no one was predestinated to be in Christ. Those in Christ have now been predestinated to the future redemption of sons.

From the foundation of the world...that’s the starting point. Not at the foundation of the world.🤦‍♂️
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#137,608
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
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113
#137,608
John146 said:
Your private interpretation...

Note, no one was predestinated to be in Christ. Those in Christ have now been predestinated to the future redemption of sons.

From the foundation of the world...that’s the starting point. Not at the foundation of the world.🤦‍♂️
Click to expand...



1590270046025.png

No, I gave you the TRUTH, what you do with it is TOTALLY ON YOU.


Ephesians 1:5 (KJV)
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:11 (KJV)
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,609
Jan 13, 2016
16,631
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#137,609
VCO said:
Ephesians 1:5 (KJV)
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:11 (KJV)
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Click to expand...
Predestinated us? Who’s us? Verse one, those in Christ. Predestinated to what? To the adoption...that’s not salvation. The adoption is the future redemption of the body. Romans 8:23. Predestination has nothing to do with being saved, rather, the beautiful future hope of us who are already saved.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,611
Jan 13, 2016
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EleventhHour said:
I believe you stated no one was present with the Lord?
Click to expand...
My bad, two exceptions 🤓 and how certain are we that they were present with the Lord? Certainly Elijah returns to earth to die. Enoch was taken as a picture of the raptured saint.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,612
Dec 12, 2013
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#137,612
BillG said:
Is it not irrelevant where David, Abraham etc went to when they died?

The issue seems to me that some believe that David, Abraham etc were not saved until Jesus shed his blood and rose again.

Was David, Abraham saved before the death and resurrection of Jesus?

I say yes.

Others say no.
Click to expand...
David speaks of his salvation in present tense in the Psalms some 1000 years before Christ was on the scene....Job SPEAKS of the Resurrection and that he would stand in it in a new body....it is absolutely satanic to say these men were not saved and as was pointed out...we were saved in Christ before the foundation of the world was even laid down by God........!! Abraham was JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.....ONE CANNOT be justified before God by faith UNLESS SAVED!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
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Dec 12, 2013
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#137,614
John146 said:
If one honestly read through the Bible without any outside influence, one would have to conclude those after the cross have something better.
Click to expand...
And this reeks of ignorance.....God is NO RESPECTOR of Persons.....ALL are dealt with EQUALLY based upon faith or a lack thereof! And you are conflating a NATIONAL COVENANT with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with PERSONAL salvation which is INDIVIDUALLY given by FAITH genius....!!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,615
Dec 12, 2013
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#137,615
VCO said:
Revelation 13:4-9 (HCSB)
4 They worshiped the dragon because he gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to wage war against him?”
5 A mouth was given to him to speak boasts and blasphemies. He was also given authority to act for 42 months.
6 He began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme His name and His dwelling—those who dwell in heaven.
7 And he was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. He was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation.
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
9 If anyone has an ear, he should listen:


WHEN WERE OUR NAMES WERE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE ? ? ?

You had better get on your knees as soon as YOU REALIZE GOD IS AN ETERNAL BEING, ALL KNOWING, ALL POWERFUL, OMNIPRESENT, HE SPEAKS and EVERYTHING HE SAYS WILL HAPPEN as if IT ALREADY HAS HAPPENED. You are trying to put mortal men's Characteristics on GOD ALMIGHTY.

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 20:15 (HCSB)
15 And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” {even Before Time Began ⮵}


See how little you KNOW? You have really got to Study MORE.
Click to expand...
Maybe if he started worshipping God instead of the Anglican version of the word of God!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,616
Dec 12, 2013
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#137,616
John146 said:
Predestinated us? Who’s us? Verse one, those in Christ. Predestinated to what? To the adoption...that’s not salvation. The adoption is the future redemption of the body. Romans 8:23. Predestination has nothing to do with being saved, rather, the beautiful future hope of us who are already saved.
Click to expand...
You are so off base with the above......seriously...do you even know Jesus biblically....BEING ADOPTED AS SONS IS BEING SAVED AND BORN AGAIN......wow....your religion has led you astray man
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,617
Jan 13, 2016
16,631
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#137,617
dcontroversal said:
David speaks of his salvation in present tense in the Psalms some 1000 years before Christ was on the scene....Job SPEAKS of the Resurrection and that he would stand in it in a new body....it is absolutely satanic to say these men were not saved and as was pointed out...we were saved in Christ before the foundation of the world was even laid down by God........!! Abraham was JUSTIFIED BY FAITH.....ONE CANNOT be justified before God by faith UNLESS SAVED!
Click to expand...
So somehow we were in Christ, fell out of Christ at the fall and got back into Christ when we believed.🤦‍♂️ Now that’s reformed theology...
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,619
Jan 13, 2016
16,631
3,533
113
#137,619
dcontroversal said:
You are so off base with the above......seriously...do you even know Jesus biblically....BEING ADOPTED AS SONS IS BEING SAVED AND BORN AGAIN......wow....your religion has led you astray man
Click to expand...
Study to shew thyself approved unto God...

Those in Christ are waiting on the adoption, the redemption of our body. It is the day we will finally be conformed to the image of Christ. It is the destination of those in Christ. The promise is present, but the fulfillment is future, thus pre...destination.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
 
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