THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

I've been paying attention to what Dr. MacArthur teaches for almost 34 years now, so as soon as I read the quote that Sudakar posited in the OP, I knew something had to be wrong.

More lies coming from you. Why posit Matthew 5:48 in post after post after post after post after post, then live in a life chocked full of lying?

More lies. You don’t struggle with the truth, you avoid it all cost.

Wolfwint is a works based pharisee who opposes Christ righteousness.

I don't think it "removes" it. I think it tries to better define it. When an unsaved person believes on the Lord Jesus for salvation, they're obeying/following Him in that very act. Once they're saved, they're a new creature whose propensity is nothing but obeying/following Him.

Actually the flesh has no use for the freeness of salvation because it can never receive it. Flesh ... cannot inherit the kingdom of God
1 Cor 15:50 (KJV)
The spirit, on the other hand, has perfect solace in the assurance of an eternal salvation that can never be lost.

Good works cannot prove one has saving faith because according to God's standard, only Christ did perfect good works according to James 2:10.

Non christians also don't.

Perfection is imputed not worked.

Confessions of faith gives surety one has saving faith.

Flesh is trusting in one's works to prove saving faith.

Good that you know me so well But I am not spreading false claimes.

Is this what you see in your life and the lives of other believesr? ONce saved their propensity is "nothing but" obeying him? If that is so, why did Peter, James, John and Paul write so many letters to the Christians correcting them? Why did the church in Corinth have a really big problem in the area of a particular sin?

There is a disconnect between your theology and the real world. You are not alone. I have met a few posters in my time whose theology bore no resemblence to real life. This means it will be difficult to discuss a matter because I deal in reality. Your answers are likely to be as the first paragraph, we have a propensity to "nothing but obey" Him when one just needs to read posts here and one can see that some are not obeying him without even observing their behavior. Their words alone betray an obvious lack of His Lordship. The theology renders Jesus as Lord unnecessary or "happening anyway" no matter what one does to others.

Trying to prove your saving faith by your works is a false theory.

You are terribly mistaken. The standard for works showing that you are saved is not that you have achieved the perfection of Christ. The standard for works showing that you are saved is that the works of the Spirit are ever increasing in your life.

"8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10Therefore, my brothers and sisters, a make every effort to confirm your calling and election." - 2 Peter 1:8-10

People who are changing more and more show themselves to be saved people. Their ever increasing works confirm their calling and election. People who are not changing show themselves to be unsaved people.

This new dead faith movement in the church tries to justify dead faith in the name of grace. Not knowing that dead faith is the sign that a person does not have the grace of God in salvation to begin with. If they did have the grace of God in salvation that grace would be teaching them to say 'no' to ungodliness, not teaching them they can live in ungodliness.

"11For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age" - Titus 2:11-12

Unbelievers do indeed live in sin. They do that because they don't have the Spirit:


Unsaved people live according to the desires of the flesh. That's how we can tell they are not saved.



"14 ...he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." - Hebrews 10:14

Do I need to explain?



Even demons and demon possessed people have confessions of faith:


Does their confession mean they are saved? Obviously not.
If a confession of faith always means a person is saved there would be no such thing as fake brethren.



"...make every effort to confirm your calling and election." - 2 Peter 1:10

According to you, Peter is telling us to walk in the flesh.

Sudakar, you are an excellent Spin Doctor. But you remain as confused as you were at the start.

Lordship salvation theory teaches the following: That one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live. It states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

The Word of God calls it a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

I suspect you are quoting MacArthur out of context.

John MacArthur is Reformed.

What he believes is that regeneration precedes faith, like all Reformed people. Therefore, God gives the person a heart of flesh to replace the heart of stone, and the fruit of this new heart is repentance and faith.

Such a person is joined to Jesus in a life-giving union. This union is productive. If the person is attached to the vine, who is Christ, he produces fruit, according to John 15 and many such sections of Scripture.

No-Lordship Salvation denies this fundamentally. Their claim is that someone can be saved, and still remain unregenerate and under the same carnal nature as before. In their worldview, regeneration makes no sense.

Christianity teaches that the person who is saved is united with Christ, and produces spiritual fruit as a result. This is what Scripture teaches.

John MacArthur is simply echoing Scripture. If guys like you misunderstand or deny Scripture, then you do so at your own risk.

James 2 says that works "justify" the person. They do not justify the person in the precise technical sense, as the sinner is justified by faith alone, but regeneration produces good fruit. The No-Lordship Salvation people deny this.

In the USA, this false teaching of No-Lordship salvation is perpetuated by disciples of Zane Hodge and Robert Wilkin, as well as many Independent Fundamentalist Baptists and the Free Grace Movement, as well as Grace Evangelical Society.

Claiming that MacArthur believes the saved person maintains his salvation through works is a lie. He is Reformed. He would believe that the saved person's union with Christ produces good works, but these good works do not maintain their salvation. The lack of good works is indicative of their lack of salvation, though. Someone who does not produce good works over their lifetime is not saved. If they continue onward in an unregenerate spirit, they don't possess salvation, or do they produce good fruit. Rotten trees don't produce good fruit.

Even non christians produce good fruit.

I suspect you are quoting MacArthur out of context.

John MacArthur is Reformed.

What he believes is that regeneration precedes faith, like all Reformed people. Therefore, God gives the person a heart of flesh to replace the heart of stone, and the fruit of this new heart is repentance and faith.

Such a person is joined to Jesus in a life-giving union. This union is productive. If the person is attached to the vine, who is Christ, he produces fruit, according to John 15 and many such sections of Scripture.

No-Lordship Salvation denies this fundamentally. Their claim is that someone can be saved, and still remain unregenerate and under the same carnal nature as before. In their worldview, regeneration makes no sense.

Christianity teaches that the person who is saved is united with Christ, and produces spiritual fruit as a result. This is what Scripture teaches.

John MacArthur is simply echoing Scripture. If guys like you misunderstand or deny Scripture, then you do so at your own risk.

James 2 says that works "justify" the person. They do not justify the person in the precise technical sense, as the sinner is justified by faith alone, but regeneration produces good fruit. The No-Lordship Salvation people deny this.

In the USA, this false teaching of No-Lordship salvation is perpetuated by disciples of Zane Hodge and Robert Wilkin, as well as many Independent Fundamentalist Baptists and the Free Grace Movement, as well as Grace Evangelical Society.

Claiming that MacArthur believes the saved person maintains his salvation through works is a lie. He is Reformed. He would believe that the saved person's union with Christ produces good works, but these good works do not maintain their salvation. The lack of good works is indicative of their lack of salvation, though. Someone who does not produce good works over their lifetime is not saved. If they continue onward in an unregenerate spirit, they don't possess salvation, or do they produce good fruit. Rotten trees don't produce good fruit.

I recall one of MacArthur quips, where he says that some Christians only produce a few shriveled grapes, but they still produce nevertheless.

1) As the unbelievers you commit sin as well and follow the desires of your flesh. No difference.
2) Hebrews 10:14 talks about perfection by faith and not by works. You commit sin.
3) The confessions of demons and demon possessed people weren't confessions of faith as both Jesus and Paul rejected them. Confession of faith as per Romans 10:9 leads to salvation.
4) Fake brethren are those who don't admit their evil works are proof for lack of saving faith.
5) Peter never tells you to confirm your saving faith by your works because your works involve evil as well.