The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

I don't think the quote you made is not without merit:

Mat 2:15 He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: "I called my Son out of Egypt."

How would anyone know what this prophecy meant until it was fulfilled|?

The timing of the rapture is provided. The rapture occurs just before the man of sin is revealed. In fact it is the rapture that is the event that ALLOWS the man of sin to be revealed! Since the man of sin has not yet been revealed, and the rapture is not yet occurred, therefore it must occur at some point in the future. Very straightforward, logical and rational.

I don't think the quote you made is not without merit:

Mat 2:15 He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: "I called my Son out of Egypt."

How would anyone know what this prophecy meant until it was fulfilled|?

That was my conclusion as well. I draw that from the one who restrains is taken out of the way or no longer restrains...I don't recall precisely which verse it is. I just assumed that "the rapture" takes place at that moment...although I am uncertain why I felt that at the time. Probably because it just doesn't seem right to me that believers be here with his presence revealed.

Can you post the scripture references for your conclusion. It was simply something that just clicked one night in a very unpleasant moment. I'd love to share it, but the inspiration and what it felt like was quite grueling...it was like a glimpse of what is being restrained and what would occur if I were to remain and why there indeed is a "mission complete" moment.

I have a pretty big heart and judgement is pretty scary. Almost like, "are you sure Lord? ...maybe if one more word was spoken or just a little more time..." but that moment made it pretty clear to me there will be a line. A time where grace is past. I still think a tiny trickle of an opportunity of grace will be available but perhaps that's just idealism in me of a final altar call in a message of wrath revealed just prior to eternal death, which is what I see the 3.5 year testimony as.

The missionary in me just doesn't sit with a message only as a testimony against someone...unless it has a purpose to convict however small/narrow the application.

Anyway, lmk what references you draw that from...I'm not the best at pinpointing specific references.

The timing of the "rapture" in Thessalonians is very specifically, and literally from context, bound to the lifetimes of the listeners, though:

1 Thes 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The interpretation of the time of Christ's coming must satisfy all the Scriptures, not only a few.

We agree pretty much on this point. ^



Jesus spoke of it throughout His entire earthly ministry (first advent)... every time that He spoke of:

--"the kingdom OF THE heavenS"
--"the age [SINGULAR] to come"
--"the wedding FEAST/SUPPER"
--the "G347 - 'shall sit down' [around a table/at a meal]"
--the TWO times He referred to "RETURN" [re: Himself], Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN," and Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and their parallels], "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." (i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom), THEN the meal!
--the times He told "the 12" they would "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel"
--when He referred to "in the regeneration when..." (that ^ reference [one of them])... "when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of His glory" [<--this being His EARTHLY "throne" upon His RETURN to the earth (there will be NO "goats" in Heaven, for example, Matt25:31-34 [parallel parts of Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50])]
--ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come/etc" references (referring to His RETURN to the earth; NOT "our Rapture") to "judge and to reign"
--many more references...


Up till the time He spoke His Olivet Discourse (and INCLUDING IT), He had NOT YET spoken to them ANYTHING about anything else but [what we call] "the promised AND PROPHESIED *earthly* Millennial Kingdom".



It is man's imagination that believes any and all of the above "contexts" ^ refer to "UP IN Heaven" INSTEAD, which they do not.

Jesus spoke of it throughout His entire earthly ministry (first advent)... every time that He spoke of:
--"the kingdom OF THE heavenS"
--"the age [SINGULAR] to come"
--"the wedding FEAST/SUPPER"
--the "G347 - 'shall sit down' [around a table/at a meal]"
--the TWO times He referred to "RETURN" [re: Himself], Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN," and Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and their parallels], "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." (i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom), THEN the meal!
--the times He told "the 12" they would "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel"
--when He referred to "in the regeneration when..." (that ^ reference [one of them])... "when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of His glory" [<--this being His EARTHLY "throne" upon His RETURN to the earth (there will be NO "goats" in Heaven, for example, Matt25:31-34 [parallel parts of Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50])]
--ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come/etc" references (referring to His RETURN to the earth; NOT "our Rapture") to "judge and to reign"
--many more references...


Up till the time He spoke His Olivet Discourse (and INCLUDING IT), He had NOT YET spoken to them ANYTHING about anything else but [what we call] "the promised AND PROPHESIED *earthly* Millennial Kingdom".



It is man's imagination that believes any and all of the above "contexts" ^ refer to "UP IN Heaven" INSTEAD, which they do not.

[ ^ Mk11:10 - 10 “Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father, David!”
“Hosanna in the highest!” ]



Later, in Acts 1 (after 40 days of His teaching on the Subject, after His resurrection), He did not CORRECT their notion... He merely responded to their Q of Him regarding its TIMING. [which He said was not for THEM to know... the TIMING of it ]

The 1260 days, 42 months and a time, times and a half a time, all represent the seven year period described in Daniel 9:27.


The Gentiles trample the holy city = 42 months

The two witnesses = Prophesy for 1260 days

The woman/Israel flees out into the desert = 1260 days or a time, times and half a time

The beast makes war agains the great tribulation saints = 42 months

The seven years described in Daniel 9:27 are divided into two 3 1/2 year period, the dividing event being the setting up of the abomination that cause desolation.

It is my conclusion that the time of the prophesy of the two witnesses will be from the beginning of the seven years to the middle. And that because in Rev.12, in the middle of the seven the woman/Israel flees out into the wilderness for 3 1/2 years up until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. That would mean that if we put the time of prophecy of the two witnesses as beginning from the middle of the seven years to the end, Israel would not be there to hear their prophesies, because they will have already fled. In addition, since the beast comes up out of the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, it would mean that he would have to wait for over 3 1/2 years before he could kill the two witnesses.

The time of when the beast makes war and conquers the great tribulation saints, will be from the middle of the seven years to the end when Jesus returns. This is also the same time that the woman/Israel is cared for out in the wilderness.

So your view is that, BUT NOW, the gospel of the kingdom is not being preached at the moment? That happens to be my doctrine too.
[...]
So whatever the contents of the gospel of the kingdom you claim, it must also be that gospel that is being preached now right?

Isa_45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Eph_3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

There are two places in the bible that says the world doesn't end but in other places it says that the world does end. So there is more than one meaning of "world" used in the bible. So when the disciples ask about the end of the world, which world were they talking about?

As I already referred to in my post, "this gospel of the kingdom" (Matt24:14[Matt26:13]) is what WILL BE being preached IN/DURING the trib years [on the earth] (that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture"/"THE Departure" of us "IN THE AIR"--i.e. "our episynagoges UNTO HIM");

...it is not being "preached" NOW; it pertains to and will INVOLVE their giving the message [at that (future) time] of the VERY NEAR ARRIVAL of the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (which will commence [in earnest] upon His "RETURN" to the earth). It will not be "preached" by "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," who will not be present on the earth during the trib years.

It pertains to "the promised AND PROPHESIED *earthly* Millennial Kingdom, and its (then) VERY SOON ARRIVAL (upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 and related passages I already listed--You may recall I believe "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is shown to be IN HEAVEN *before* the FIRST SEAL, [with "stephanos/crowns" and on "thrones"] and are saying in Rev5:9 "hast redeemed US")

Yep, so my original point to you was that:

There is no sense in believing the pre-trib rapture of the Body of Christ and at the same time, be a covenant theologist.

These 2 doctrines are not compatible with each other.

I personally haven't noticed anyone in this thread (or others) claiming to hold to both the "pre-trib rapture" doctrine AND "covenant theology"... apparently you have noticed some who [claim to] hold to both??

We should all know the day and the hr if it is happened and done .. Matt 24:36 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The measure of whether something happened or not is not that "we all know it." There are those who refuse the truth and do not know it then. There are those who are ignore, sometimes unwillingly or sometimes willingly. Jesus can speak of a future event that no one knows but once it is past, it can be known by those who seek the truth and have some means to find it out. Again, the measure of whether an event occured is not that we are all aware of it.

Something those who think the whole of Revelation is in the future do not think about is that when what they think will happen in ISrael happens, there is no assurance that it will be covered by the 6 o'clock news with live feed. IOW, if what is happening in the streets of Jerusalem are not known around the world today, when it is peaceful, certainly in a time when armies are surrounding it will not be a time when it will be known then.

The measure of whether something happened or not is not that "we all know it." There are those who refuse the truth and do not know it then. There are those who are ignore, sometimes unwillingly or sometimes willingly. Jesus can speak of a future event that no one knows but once it is past, it can be known by those who seek the truth and have some means to find it out. Again, the measure of whether an event occured is not that we are all aware of it.

Something those who think the whole of Revelation is in the future do not think about is that when what they think will happen in ISrael happens, there is no assurance that it will be covered by the 6 o'clock news with live feed. IOW, if what is happening in the streets of Jerusalem are not known around the world today, when it is peaceful, certainly in a time when armies are surrounding it will not be a time when it will be known then.

The fairytale is that what you are presently living. On the other hand the reality is the Scripture.