Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians

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Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Paul states that the resurrection of the dead and our changing takes place in a twinkling of an eye.
But you are saying it will be at least seven years before all are resurrected and changed.
Don't you see how stupid that sounds?
That is just ignoring what Scripture teaches because it destroys the foundation your belief is built on.
You bet they ignore the simple scripture, because thus scripture completely destroys the false teaching of a pre-trib rapture.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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You quote the "Standard" dispensational false claim that Rev 3:10 is God's promise to rapture the church to heaven before the great tribulation?
The phrase "the GREAT tribulation" refers only to the SECOND HALF of the 7 yrs.

Rev3:10 is speaking of the entire 7 yrs (or at the very least, the FIRST HALF starting at its BEGINNING point--kept out of THAT--"[...] I will keep you OUT FROM the HOUR of..." [i.e. OUT FROM the TIME PERIOD]).

1.) How are those of the synagogue of Satan going to worship at the churches feet, if it's gone from earth in a rapture to heaven?
Just because "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" will be raptured BEFORE the FIRST SEAL is opened at the START of the trib yrs (parallel a number of other passages), does not mean they REMAIN there [located there SOLELY] for the remainder of "eternity" (so to speak).
Recall again what the 24 elders say in 5:9 (and what the next verse states, v.10, along with 1:5-6).

Then, one must grasp what is meant in 3:10 by "Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance [...]" . It has a specific meaning.

2.) How's the church going to overcome if its raptured away to heaven before the tribulation?
As to the word "overcome," see again 1Jn5:5, "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" Then recall what the verse quoted below states:

[...]
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Again, "unto the churchES" is not identical to saying "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY".
In the former, there are BOTH "believers" AND "those who come in His name, but are not actually connected with CHRIST [i.e. they are NOT SAVED]"... but in the latter, it is made up of ONLY BELIEVERS. See the distinction?

I'll try to come back later to put more to these points...
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Recall again what the 24 elders say in 5:9
"hast redeemed US [G2248] to God by thy blood out of [ek] every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"


...and this is following the "WAS FOUND" word in 5:4, which is certainly indicative of a "searching judgment" having already been conducted (just like is used of Paul in the latter parts of Acts, when he was brought before their "BEMA seat"). IOW, this isn't speaking of humans [believers] UPON THEIR DEATH. [ex. like "the dead IN Christ" who are "present with the Lord" even now, since they died... No. Not that.]
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Again my challenge to postribs adherents.
Produce a verse or dynamic supporting a postrib rapture.
You bet they ignore the simple scripture, because thus scripture completely destroys the false teaching of a pre-trib rapture.
There ya have it, the post- trib second coming and rapture.

Matthew24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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There's not a single scripture that supports pre-tribulation. I've been trying to tell you for a while.



I'm 100% sure that you and a few other people who've been involved in this discussion grossly misunderstand the end times to the point of reckless disregard for truth.
Reckless disregard of truth is a big "Understatement"
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Paul states that the resurrection of the dead and our changing takes place in a twinkling of an eye. But you are saying it will be at least seven years before all are resurrected and changed. Don't you see how stupid that sounds?
You may be either misunderstanding or misrepresenting what is being said. The main harvest oR Resurrection/Rapture occurs in the twinkling of an eye. But the Tribulation saints (those beheaded by the Antichrist) are resurrected at least seven years later. However, all the righteous (the saints) are a part of the first resurrection.

THE FIRST RESURRECTION (THE RIGHTEOUS)
PHASE I THE FIRST FRUITS: Christ
PHASE II THE MAIN HARVEST: The Resurrection/Rapture
PHASE III THE GLEANINGS: The Tribulation saints
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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^ The way I see it is, that there is more than one "HARVEST" (in Scripture and in nature).

Thus, "the 144,000," who are said to be "firstfruit," are not "firstfruit" of ONE/the FIRST[-and-ONLY] "harvest," with all of the rest of us coming up as the REST OF THAT harvest [at the END of trib]... like some suggest.

No.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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There's not a single scripture that supports pre-tribulation. I've been trying to tell you for a while.



I'm 100% sure that you and a few other people who've been involved in this discussion grossly misunderstand the end times to the point of reckless disregard for truth.
Directly refute my verses.

Tell me about how rev 14 supports your beliefs.
How a gathering in the gt that precedes the supposition of the supposed dead raised at the end of the gt is even possible.

Unless of course 1 thes 4 is error.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Jesus Christ returns "Once" in the future, "immediately after the tribulation" in the resurrection, catching up, and final judgement, as the heavens and earth are dissolved by his fire 2 Peter 3:10-13, as the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem are revealed for eternity.
Rev 14.
Read about Jesus returning DURING THE GT.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I am one [as a 'pre-trib adherent' :D ] who happens to disagree with that ^ particular point.

In past posts I've listed tons of passages showing the "saints" ('still-living') who will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, not "our Rapture" time-slot)... Matt25:31-34 (and context) being one of those passages speaking of their ENTRANCE INTO the MK age, as "still-living" persons ('saints' [only!]) upon His RETURN to the earth (parallel also to the Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 passage, same... "still-living" persons/saints/'the righteous' at that point in the chronology: His return to the earth Rev19 [not "our Rapture" context, which takes place in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that which is described in this particular text/context, btw])... and Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]... (,<--the ppl in that scene are "still-living" persons on the earth, upon His "RETURN" there)... and about 8-9 other "BLESSED" passages, like Dan12:12 for example, "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days" ("still-living" saints, same point in the chronology, at His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19).
I do not see that you refuted my verses.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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There's not a single scripture that supports pre-tribulation. I've been trying to tell you for a while.



I'm 100% sure that you and a few other people who've been involved in this discussion grossly misunderstand the end times to the point of reckless disregard for truth.
Hello???
You need them again?????
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You misunderstand-------------We are looking and waiting for Jesus return when He will put an end to all wickedness.
But first looking for other things right?

.....and then you look for Jesus return. Right?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Rev. 20 speaks of the first resurrection and plainly states that the only way to escape the second death is to be in the first resurrection. Please note the tribulation saints that did not take the mark are in the first resurrection.
They died.
They are the innumerable number.
Millions/billions killed and in heaven.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Again as I said before, there are specific groups of those who are redeemed, who are part of the first resurrection. These groups are resurrected in a fairly tightly packed span of time in sequence, as Paul says "in their own order".
Jesus firstfruits.
Those resurrected and walking in Jerusalem are part of that.
Main harvest 1 thes 4
Foolish virgins follow through martyrdom as "the innumerable number "
The 2 witnesses next.the the 144k jewish believers.
Then the ripe fruit. In rev 14.

ALL MAKING UP THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Harvest is 4 parts....according to leviticus.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Jesus Christ returns "Once" in the future, "immediately after the tribulation" in the resurrection, catching up, and final judgement, as the heavens and earth are dissolved by his fire 2 Peter 3:10-13, as the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem are revealed for eternity.
We both agree he returns after the gt.

The fact he harvests from a cloud in rev 14 can not be covered up.

The rapture of 1 thes 4 is mat 25.
One and the same.

Those verses are not going away.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The tribulation's "Two Witnesses"?

It's going to be a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, and the witnesses are going to be in full control of all plagues upon the Beast and his kingdom, All Plagues!

Will God fulfill his promise to protect the Church from the final hour of earths temptation during the tribulation?

Yes! Just as in the days of old in Egypt, as clearly seen in Isaiah 26:20-21, the Church is instructed to enter their dwellings and shut their doors until the Lord's indignation is past, exactly like the Passover in Egypt, "Awesome"!

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
""Will God fulfill his promise to protect the Church from the final hour of earths temptation during the tribulation?""
Jesus gave us,the church,the 2 escape verses,the promise of mansions in heaven,the wedding feast in heaven,the lot and noah PRETRIB dynamic,one taken/ one left.

The rapture is not the second coming.

We see Jesus return in rev 14 and harvest ripe fruit DURING THE GT.

You ignore all of that.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You bet they ignore the simple scripture, because thus scripture completely destroys the false teaching of a pre-trib rapture.
That verse is a great pretrib rapture verse.
It reads exactly in line with a pretrib rapture.

The problem you ignore is that harvest is 4 parts.

You are taking the main harvest, putting it out of place,then trying to build around a false concept.

1st fruits
Main harvest
Cleaners
Corners.

The bible has a harmony
Many concepts TOGETHER.


....not one isolated deal like "trumpet,twinkling",etc
Those talking points do not void other verses
 
Jul 23, 2018
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You bet they ignore the simple scripture, because thus scripture completely destroys the false teaching of a pre-trib rapture.
Ignoring verses would be like what we have with postribs .

None of the postribs actually engage our verses.

We however,directly address yours.

Show me where any of my verses are addressed.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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That verse is a great pretrib rapture verse.
It reads exactly in line with a pretrib rapture.

The problem you ignore is that harvest is 4 parts.

You are taking the main harvest, putting it out of place,then trying to build around a false concept.

1st fruits
Main harvest
Cleaners
Corners.

The bible has a harmony
Many concepts TOGETHER.


....not one isolated deal like "trumpet,twinkling",etc
Those talking points do not void other verses
The resurrection is in (four parts)?

Your claim is "False" and a fairy tale.

There is "One" future resurrection of all John 5:28-29, it takes place immediately after the tribulation Matthew 24:29-31, on the "Last Day" John 6:40, 11:23-24