Jesus did not say follow preachers, He said follow Me.

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Relic

Active member
Apr 29, 2020
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@Relic , I am not intellectualizing anything. It is Holy Scripture...that is meant to be listened to, obeyed, and LIVED. I am just really confused about where you are coming from. I am not trying to argue; I am actually trying to help you see that it is okay to listen to what Paul and the prophets said. It is what you should do. Not idolize them, just listen. Because it was God who spoke through them ~ do you not want to listen to what God has spoken? It is seeming like you feel that one cannot obey the Scriptures and live according to Christ's commandment of love.
 
Aug 14, 2019
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Relic is right that we must not take any man's word for explaining God's ways.
What is the alternative? Taking the word of the generations before us is how we know faith in Jesus at all.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I have a right to disagree with whoever I want without penalty. Only my Lord Jesus Christ
please read Luke 10:16, and Acts 9:15 then. these are both Christ's own recorded words.

Jesus says that whoever accepts the one He sends accepts Him, and whoever rejects the one He sends rejects Him.
Jesus says Paul is His chosen servant. Jesus sent Paul to write those letters.
 

Relic

Active member
Apr 29, 2020
249
104
28
Hmmm. not sure how I mislead you so badly. In my mid thirties, God found me. I was not looking for God but suddenly through a friend I was introduced just as a lark really. He was a long time Christian. so it seemed ok
that first time. And then another time. Then I needed more. So enrolled in bible study, which I attended for
ten years. So I am well versed on scripture. I use it often as meditation. I read two or three versed than
put bible down and I sense God. I sense Him through those words. I never hear anything because when we
are in the Spirit, words mean nothing. There is a powerful intimate connection through that scripture.
occasionally I use scripture for information for tutoring a couple of people. I am not one bit against scripture
but I am against making scripture people's God. If you recall the Pharisees, they knew the scriptures inside
our but they didn't know God. Please know that I am not selling you anything here. I am sure you will find
your way as I detect you are set in where your path is. So I just wanted to straighten out my journey so far.
By the way, I don't know if you go to the miscellaneous room, I have two poems posted there if you are
interested. I have written many but only posted two for now. All are Christian.
 

maryjohanna

Active member
May 24, 2020
106
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28
I am against making scripture people's God.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1
Scripture is God. It is Him in word form. You can know the Scriptures inside and out, and use them to develop a personal relationship with Jesus.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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There is even a group of believers who follow that principle, they are called Red letter Christians.

The OP very likely subscribed to their views

https://www.redletterchristians.org/
Red letter Christians? Interesting, however I am not sure this is what he is he did say Pauls letters were law but he also said he is not saying he is throwing them out either, if he really was a red letter christian wouldn't he see Pauls letters as not part of the gospel at all?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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I understand that; but there is a difference between taking a man's word to explain God's ways and acknowledging that the entirety of the Scriptures exist to share with us the Truth. Apparently, my mind isn't processing this correctly. I don't read what Paul says and glorify him, I just take what he says seriously because I know he was being used by God to share with us the reality of the Word.
Paul did not write man's word, Paul reported what the Lord told him to report. Paul can be relied on to be truth but he is often misunderstood. He must be read as explaining the basic ways of God, never as one who changes them. He doesn't.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Red letter Christians? Interesting, however I am not sure this is what he is he did say Pauls letters were law but he also said he is not saying he is throwing them out either, if he really was a red letter christian wouldn't he see Pauls letters as not part of the gospel at all?
Red letter Christians do not throw Romans to Philemon out, they just read them from the perspective of the red letters said by Jesus.

If they contradict, the red letters win.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
3,192
3,507
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Red letter Christians do not throw Romans to Philemon out, they just read them from the perspective of the red letters said by Jesus.

If they contradict, the red letters win.
Hello Guojing, I'm not sure if you are a "red letter" Christian, but whether you are or not, do you know of the existence of any true contradictions between the things that St. Paul wrote and the things that the Lord Jesus said (and/or the standard verses/passages that a "red letter" Christian might point to as being contradictory) :unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut
p.s. - here are the Lord Jesus and St. Paul talking about the same, important subject, salvation. While Paul uses a somewhat different wording than the Lord did, I would hardly call their words "contradictory", rather, I would say that they are complimentary in both cases, wouldn't you?


John 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." ~Jesus Christ
Romans 10
9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ~The Apostle Paul
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
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Isn't that what 99% of the people do with the Bible? They take verses out of context from one book then another to prove a point. People can manufacture all kinds of strange doctrine when they have a predetermined answer in mind.
A lot of people do.. But that does not change the point that Paul's words are either the inspired words of God and thus they have authority for Christians or Paul did not speak the Words of God and His letters can be thrown out.. No half way measures here.. One is either with Paul or they are against Him..
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
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What is the alternative? Taking the word of the generations before us is how we know faith in Jesus at all.
The alternative is to find a man who has studied scripture and ancient history to be sure he understands what the prophets meant and let him lead you in verse by verse study of ALL scripture, old and new testament. Understand how the testaments work together. Then read the reports of all the Christian councils to see if they changed scripture, checking why and how they did it. I did this, it is WELL worth the time and effort. Constantine had great influence and there are copies of his letters so we can track what he did and why. With all this study, keep the word as truth, check everything against that word.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Hello Guojing, I'm not sure if you are a "red letter" Christian, but whether you are or not, do you know of the existence of any true contradictions between the things that St. Paul wrote and the things that the Lord Jesus said (and/or the standard verses/passages that a "red letter" Christian might point to as being contradictory) :unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut
p.s. - here are the Lord Jesus and St. Paul talking about the same, important subject, salvation. While Paul uses a somewhat different wording than the Lord did, I would hardly call their words "contradictory", rather, I would say that they are complimentary in both cases, wouldn't you?


John 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." ~Jesus Christ
Romans 10
9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ~The Apostle Paul
Jesus was preaching under the Law of Moses to Israel in the 4 gospels, so of course there are many.

You can also find complementary passages if you so desire, the most popular is of course John 3:16, but it does not change that fact.

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
 
R

Reformyourself

Guest
followed/worshipped preachers most of my life. It’s always been a problem for me, looking for ‘saints’ (ex-catholic) Still trying to focus on Jesus as my all-in-all, but I do allow myself to get distracted at times 😒
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
If you recall the Pharisees, they knew the scriptures inside
our but they didn't know God.
The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat, therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do,
but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
(Matthew 23:2-3)
if Jesus tells those under Moses to do everything the pharisees tell them to do, shall we not do what the apostles tell us to do?
we are not under Moses, but whose seat do the apostles sit in?
 

tantalon

Active member
Oct 11, 2019
286
105
43
There is no contradiction in the Gospels and Paul's writings. The Gospels are the recorded life and history of the saviour who was himself under Law and came to FULFILL IT. During this time the act of repentance was preached by this disciples, and the miracles of Jesus were the signs of the Christ, and the fulfillment of all prophecy concerning him. AFTER the resurrection, the Gospel under Grace came in effect. The Holy Spirit was not given to the MASSES, until after Jesus' resurrection. John 7: 37-39.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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followed/worshipped preachers most of my life. It’s always been a problem for me, looking for ‘saints’ (ex-catholic) Still trying to focus on Jesus as my all-in-all, but I do allow myself to get distracted at times 😒
I think we all get distracted at times and when we find we have turned from Him, I am so thankful that all we have to do is turn our hearts back to Him and He welcomes us with open arms.



 
Jun 5, 2020
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YES IT IS A SIN for you to diagree with Paul. It is downright DEVILISH. Get offended all you want, get mad even, but while your getting there get convicted and repent of your false belief system that will send you to hell if you do not repent. You will not be able to stand before Jesus and say.. "I did not think it was a Law to follow what Paul said so I disagreed at times." pfffft! good luck with that one!!!
Who are you to judge another person? You are violating Scripture with your judgement.

"
Romans 14:10-13, "You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]
So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

Yes, that means you, Scribe.
 
Jun 5, 2020
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The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat, therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do,
but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
(Matthew 23:2-3)
if Jesus tells those under Moses to do everything the pharisees tell them to do, shall we not do what the apostles tell us to do?
we are not under Moses, but whose seat do the apostles sit in?
It's disappointing that you don't understand the New Covenant. The Pharisees didn't have the Holy Spirit, so they were teachers of the law. Jesus said that He would give us the Holy spirit, who would guide us into all truth.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
You made a very malicious post here and should remove it immediately
.i
use Paul's letter as much or more than anyone else. if you read the posts in thisO
OP you would have seen that. calling me a troll and devish is an abuse of thid
site...take it down by your own initiative. I said Paul's letters are not laws and that
is substantiated more than once in scripture. i.e. Love fulfils the law, meaning all
the law...we are now living under grace and not the law. at no time or placed did I say
we should get rid of his letters. we are to use them as guides and not laws....scripture.
even by his own words he said that.
Relic, this would be a good time for you to surrender your heart to Jesus Christ completely and to embrace the bible as the divinely inspired word of God from Genesis to Revelation.
2 Tim 3:1All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work
Who are you to judge another person? You are violating Scripture with your judgement.

"
Romans 14:10-13, "You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]
So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

Yes, that means you, Scribe.
If you preach what Paul preached you can expect someone to misapply and misinterpret judgment scriptures at you. They are conditioned to this reaction from cultural responses of those who do not understand the judgment verses. We are called to warn people of the judgment to come. Your DO NOT JUDGE responses do not scare me away from preaching the whole counsel of God including telling people that if they believe they do not have to follow what Paul said because he is not Jesus they are on the highway to hell. For SURE. TURN BACK NOW. before it is too late.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 cor 6:9-10) PAUL

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21) PAUL
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.
I believe we need to have Relic spell out what it is that he disagrees with in Paul's writings.

Relic has stated that it is not a sin for him to disagree with Paul, yet Relic will not specify what it is that is so disagreeable to him ...

In Post #28, Relic stated (referring to Scripture other than the gospels) "They are there to help and guide us and accept their assistance or not accept it".

In Post #40, Relic stated "As I say I follow Paul in his help for my beginning in Christianity. But it is not a sin for me to disagree with Paul."

In Post #51, Relic stated "I stand by all I have posted to date."

In Post #78, Relic stated "we are now living under grace and not the law. at no time or placed did I say we should get rid of his letters. we are to use them as guides and not laws."

In Post #82, Relic stated "I have a right to disagree with whoever I want without penalty."



I have asked Relic to let us know what he disagrees with in Paul's writings (Post #75). However, Relic will not state what he disagrees with.

And it might be that Relic does not disagree with what was written by Paul, and what he disagrees with is that some people continue to hold themselves under law in their handling of Scripture.

But Relic needs to clarify because it is one thing to consider Scripture as "there to help and guide us and accept their assistance or not accept it" --- not true.

and it is another thing to disagree with people who continue under law in handling Scripture --- true.


@Relic, please clarify. thanks.