My take on water baptism...
- Thread starter Peterlag
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I used to think water baptism was an innocent work to do, after all, as you said, it hardly cost one anything to do so, so might as well do it "to be safe".
Until I met people on their deathbeds whom when I ask them whether they know that they are saved, one of them actually told me "Because I have been water baptized!"
It was then that I realized water baptism is not as innocent as it looks.
Until I met people on their deathbeds whom when I ask them whether they know that they are saved, one of them actually told me "Because I have been water baptized!"
It was then that I realized water baptism is not as innocent as it looks.
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yes -- my point was to garee, who had remarked about this person from Judah baptizing, what does it mean?
because it wasn't Christ who was immersing anyone in water.
i think garee's point was that to the Jews, immersion in water was associated with ritual cleaning, so, associated with the priesthood, by extension Levi -- so to have someone doing this who was not of Levi may have been a strange thing to the Jews, even offensive.
i'm not sure whether it's only Levites who immersed people -- or only Levites who were immersed. would have to look that up..? but as you point out, that the disciples were baptizing, would equally well serve garee's remark, because they were not Levite either.
there is certainly a thread of the new covenant & new priesthood running through this topic, to be followed. i didn't mean to discount completely garee's observation, just to point out Christ wasn't doing the baptizing with H2O -- His kingdom, and His priesthood, is a spiritual one, and He baptizes with spirit & fire
because it wasn't Christ who was immersing anyone in water.
i think garee's point was that to the Jews, immersion in water was associated with ritual cleaning, so, associated with the priesthood, by extension Levi -- so to have someone doing this who was not of Levi may have been a strange thing to the Jews, even offensive.
i'm not sure whether it's only Levites who immersed people -- or only Levites who were immersed. would have to look that up..? but as you point out, that the disciples were baptizing, would equally well serve garee's remark, because they were not Levite either.
there is certainly a thread of the new covenant & new priesthood running through this topic, to be followed. i didn't mean to discount completely garee's observation, just to point out Christ wasn't doing the baptizing with H2O -- His kingdom, and His priesthood, is a spiritual one, and He baptizes with spirit & fire
Pentecost unites John's Baptism of water to Christ's Baptism of fire into one Baptism.
Acts 2: 38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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yes in the situations you describe, it has become like circumcision to them, per Galatians.
the same occurs with things like attending a church, keeping sabbaths, taking communion, and many others.
in the early centuries of the church, people put off baptism because they thought this was how sins were forgiven - they were afraid that sins committed after being baptized were either impossible or much more difficult to be forgiven. from this idea, coupled with hardship, plague & general high infant mortality, people began baptizing infants - in so doing supposing they would be saved if they were to die in childhood as so many did. the much more modern covenant-theology that approves infant baptism points to the practice being prevalent since the earliest records of Christianity ((tho we know this mainly because we have several extant letters of church leaders arguing against it)), but the modern justification for it ((covenantism)) is far different from the justification people used for it in 1st millineum ((a physical rite which removes sin, securing salvation)).
the same occurs with things like attending a church, keeping sabbaths, taking communion, and many others.
in the early centuries of the church, people put off baptism because they thought this was how sins were forgiven - they were afraid that sins committed after being baptized were either impossible or much more difficult to be forgiven. from this idea, coupled with hardship, plague & general high infant mortality, people began baptizing infants - in so doing supposing they would be saved if they were to die in childhood as so many did. the much more modern covenant-theology that approves infant baptism points to the practice being prevalent since the earliest records of Christianity ((tho we know this mainly because we have several extant letters of church leaders arguing against it)), but the modern justification for it ((covenantism)) is far different from the justification people used for it in 1st millineum ((a physical rite which removes sin, securing salvation)).
L
You come here spouting your own erroneous interpretation of scripture, then call me a pharisee for calling you a false teacher. That is definitely gaslighting. You create your own doctrine by abusing scripture which is what pharisees did, and then when you rebuked you call the one rebuking the pharisee. That's the definition of gaslighting.
L
Peter are you here just to stir the pot? I have seen in your threads that you post things that seem to be about the bible and God but every time it is not accurate or scriptural and then you will argue with people un but neveer lsiten to anything they say
The way I see it either you are trolling or you are babe trying to seem like a meat eater, either way you need to start listening and learning not speaking and teaching
The way I see it either you are trolling or you are babe trying to seem like a meat eater, either way you need to start listening and learning not speaking and teaching
Work of the flesh? nothing to do with Christ? Jon the baptist baptized Jesus himself was baptized and that is when the holy spirit came upon him and he began his ministry, also I have no idea where you got the idea it is a Catholic origin it is in the bible we are even commanded to be baptized in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit have you not read all of that?
S
I am going to suggest that you study the scriptures on baptism more than you have so far. There is no question that Paul is talking about water baptism in these verses that he assumed all his readers had obeyed...
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now I know that you are trying to say that Paul was talking about some kind of mystical baptism ordinance that they followed that did not include water baptism, but you have not a shred of evidence that they ever spoke about such a concept that did not include the physical ordinance of baptism. What Paul is describing is that spiritual reason why they underwent the act of faith of water baptism and you seem to be focusing on that spiritual reality which is good, but to exclude it from the act of faith of water baptism is an erroneous theory that will not hold up to exegesis on all of the New Testament scriptures on Baptism.
I am afraid you will find yourself alone on this theory and you will probably be coined a heretic if you teach that Baptism in water is not part of the Great Commission.
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now I know that you are trying to say that Paul was talking about some kind of mystical baptism ordinance that they followed that did not include water baptism, but you have not a shred of evidence that they ever spoke about such a concept that did not include the physical ordinance of baptism. What Paul is describing is that spiritual reason why they underwent the act of faith of water baptism and you seem to be focusing on that spiritual reality which is good, but to exclude it from the act of faith of water baptism is an erroneous theory that will not hold up to exegesis on all of the New Testament scriptures on Baptism.
I am afraid you will find yourself alone on this theory and you will probably be coined a heretic if you teach that Baptism in water is not part of the Great Commission.