Walking By The Spirit

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Mar 23, 2016
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#61
Romans 5 is dead smack in the middle of this our Grace administration.
What does that have to do with the fact that Romans 5:13-14 speaks of a time which you refer to as the " Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses " and then misapply what God reveals in a historic comment to claim that there was a time of sinlessness when, in fact, there was tremendous wickedness and sin in the "Patriarchal administration"?

The whole point of Rom 5:13-14 is that even when there was no law, people sinned ... resulting in death because the wages of sin is death.

Romans 5:

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


vs 12 - sin entered into the world through Adam and because all who were born after Adam sinned, death was the result. They did not die because of Adam's actions. They died because of their own sin.

vs 13 - before the law, sin was in the world. Look at the judgments of God before the law of Moses: the flood of Noah's time. In Gen 6:5 we see that God saw the wickedness of man was great in the earth. And what about the fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah. In Gen 18:20, God told Abraham that Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, He would go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it (Gen 18:21).

These judgments took place during the time in which you erroneously claim "no law, no sin" ... which we know is not true because of what is stated in Scripture during the time period Rom 5:13 refers to.

And so, Peterlag, that is why it is important to read all of Scripture ... not to apply what is written to others to ourselves ... but to properly and rightly divide the Word of Truth concerning Scripture when that which was written for our learning is referred to in Scripture written to us.



 
Jun 15, 2020
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#62
What does that have to do with the fact that Romans 5:13-14 speaks of a time which you refer to as the " Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses " and then misapply what God reveals in a historic comment to claim that there was a time of sinlessness when, in fact, there was tremendous wickedness and sin in the "Patriarchal administration"?

The whole point of Rom 5:13-14 is that even when there was no law, people sinned ... resulting in death because the wages of sin is death.

Romans 5:

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


vs 12 - sin entered into the world through Adam and because all who were born after Adam sinned, death was the result. They did not die because of Adam's actions. They died because of their own sin.

vs 13 - before the law, sin was in the world. Look at the judgments of God before the law of Moses: the flood of Noah's time. In Gen 6:5 we see that God saw the wickedness of man was great in the earth. And what about the fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah. In Gen 18:20, God told Abraham that Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, He would go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it (Gen 18:21).

These judgments took place during the time in which you erroneously claim "no law, no sin" ... which we know is not true because of what is stated in Scripture during the time period Rom 5:13 refers to.

And so, Peterlag, that is why it is important to read all of Scripture ... not to apply what is written to others to ourselves ... but to properly and rightly divide the Word of Truth concerning Scripture when that which was written for our learning is referred to in Scripture written to us.
I do read all of the Scripture and I have no idea why you would think I don't. And also I never said Romans was during the Patriarchal administration. Romans was written during the Grace administration. It would be helpful if you quoted me correctly.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#63
I do read all of the Scripture and I have no idea why you would think I don't.
Oh, I don't know Peterlag, do you think possibly??? ... maybe??? ... because of some statements you have made:

reneweddaybyday said:
Wow. You believe there is no need to read Scripture? Is that what you're saying? ... interesting.
Why do we continue to read the same book over and over? We don't do that with any of our school books or any other book that we read.

Chester said:
I think you are missing something here somewhere --- the depths of the riches of God's Word are not mined by just one reading and our study and understanding will always find more of the depths of the riches of our blessed Lord!
So we can never learn? It's too hard?

Chester said:
If we say we have learned all of what Scripture has for us, then we claim to be as knowledgeable as the Word (Jesus). For me, I will honestly admit I have a lot yet to learn from the Scriptures.
Okay. But don't drag me back down to have to keep reading it.

These are a few of the comments you have made which just might lead someone to believe you do not read all of Scripture. And for you to "have no idea" why anyone would conclude you do not read all of Scripture is another ludicrous statement. :rolleyes:




Peterlag said:
And also I never said Romans was during the Patriarchal administration.
And I never said you said Romans was during the Patriarchal administration.




Peterlag said:
Romans was written during the Grace administration.
here is what you submitted to Blain in Post #56

"Everything is about being sinless because there's no sin in Christ and his righteousness.
Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."


I agree there is no sin in Christ and His righteousness. I do not agree Romans 5:13 is the verse to use to support that truth. You have plucked one verse out of its context and pointed to it as having confirmed your statement.

So now you have taken a verse which does not apply to your point and you have improperly applied it to your point.

Find another verse which accurately reflects the truth you want to convey. Just don't use Rom 5:13 to support the statement "there's no sin in Christ and his righteousness" or that anyone was "sinless" during the time before the law of Moses because Rom 5:13 clearly states "sin was in the world" before the law of Moses and even though there was no law, there was definitely judgment of God due to sin during that time period.




Peterlag said:
It would be helpful if you quoted me correctly.
It would be helpful if you did not infer that I said things I did not say.



 
Jun 15, 2020
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#64
Oh, I don't know Peterlag, do you think possibly??? ... maybe??? ... because of some statements you have made:










These are a few of the comments you have made which just might lead someone to believe you do not read all of Scripture. And for you to "have no idea" why anyone would conclude you do not read all of Scripture is another ludicrous statement. :rolleyes:





And I never said you said Romans was during the Patriarchal administration.





here is what you submitted to Blain in Post #56

"Everything is about being sinless because there's no sin in Christ and his righteousness.
Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."


I agree there is no sin in Christ and His righteousness. I do not agree Romans 5:13 is the verse to use to support that truth. You have plucked one verse out of its context and pointed to it as having confirmed your statement.

So now you have taken a verse which does not apply to your point and you have improperly applied it to your point.

Find another verse which accurately reflects the truth you want to convey. Just don't use Rom 5:13 to support the statement "there's no sin in Christ and his righteousness" or that anyone was "sinless" during the time before the law of Moses because Rom 5:13 clearly states "sin was in the world" before the law of Moses and even though there was no law, there was definitely judgment of God due to sin during that time period.





It would be helpful if you did not infer that I said things I did not say.
Oh I see. If I graduate from a topic that must mean I did not read enough. Right.
 

DJZawada

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#65
The human or these things? I was taught God or Christ was showing me something when I walk by the spirit. Maybe it's the spirit showing me something when I walk by the spirit.
I would like to also add from Matthew 10:19

But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak;

As we can see our Lord will give us what to say by His spirit, Ruach haKodesh, and I believe in our actions and movements as well!

:)
 
Jun 15, 2020
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#66
I would like to also add from Matthew 10:19

But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak;

As we can see our Lord will give us what to say by His spirit, Ruach haKodesh, and I believe in our actions and movements as well!

:)
The first time this happen to me was when I was in college. Only the cool thing about it was the Lord showed me the room the night before. So when the next day came and I walked in that room for the first time is when I knew the Lord was with me.
 

DJZawada

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Jul 25, 2020
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#67
The first time this happen to me was when I was in college. Only the cool thing about it was the Lord showed me the room the night before. So when the next day came and I walked in that room for the first time is when I knew the Lord was with me.
That is amazing and wonderful! To me it happens without knowledge of the situation. The Lord just cause me to speak about Jesus in the most odd situations that you would think not fit the conversation, but that is the beauty and power of God that He knows all and sees All when we do not.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#68
Oh I see. If I graduate from a topic that must mean I did not read enough. Right.
What are you talking about? That comment makes no sense.

A month ago, when I asked you:


you told me point blank



So this morning when you said you "have no idea why [ I ] would think [ you ] don't" read Scripture, I showed you why I (and possibly others here at CC) would have an idea that you did not read all of Scripture. And there were more posts submitted by you wherein you indicate you have no need to read all of Scripture.


Do you or do you not read all of Scripture? Just answer honestly.



 
Jun 15, 2020
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#69
What are you talking about? That comment makes no sense.

A month ago, when I asked you:


you told me point blank



So this morning when you said you "have no idea why [ I ] would think [ you ] don't" read Scripture, I showed you why I (and possibly others here at CC) would have an idea that you did not read all of Scripture. And there were more posts submitted by you wherein you indicate you have no need to read all of Scripture.


Do you or do you not read all of Scripture? Just answer honestly.
I don't keep reading the same books over and over. I never said I did not read all of it before. I see no need to keep reading a book that I already read. Do you?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#70
I don't keep reading the same books over and over. I never said I did not read all of it before. I see no need to keep reading a book that I already read. Do you?
When it comes to Scripture, yes I do.

I also read books pertaining to my career "over and over" ... legal books ... codes and statutes, stuff like that.

I once worked for a lawyer who asked me why I continued to attend biblical studies courses ... didn't I already know what was in Scripture? This was back in the 1980s when I had been involved in bible studies for about 10 years.

I told him there is so much treasure in Scripture that we could study and never reach the end of learning. Then I asked him why did he continue to take continuing education courses?

I still read Scripture every day. I study Scripture on my own and I still attend Bible studies.

I guess I'm just not as edumacated as you, Peterlag ...
:rolleyes:
 
Jun 15, 2020
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#71
When it comes to Scripture, yes I do.

I also read books pertaining to my career "over and over" ... legal books ... codes and statutes, stuff like that.

I once worked for a lawyer who asked me why I continued to attend biblical studies courses ... didn't I already know what was in Scripture? This was back in the 1980s when I had been involved in bible studies for about 10 years.

I told him there is so much treasure in Scripture that we could study and never reach the end of learning. Then I asked him why did he continue to take continuing education courses?

I still read Scripture every day. I study Scripture on my own and I still attend Bible studies.

I guess I'm just not as edumacated as you, Peterlag ... :rolleyes:
And so it never crossed your mind that maybe the Bible is not filled with so much treasure to the end one could continue to study and never reach the end of learned? But that folks just don't understand it and that's why they keep reading it? And please keep in mind that I did not just write that the Bible is not filled with treasure. I wrote the bible may not be filled with so much treasure TO THE END ONE COULD CONTINUE TO STUDY AND NEVER REACH THE END OF LEARNING. I know from experience so many here like to take my words out of context when quoting me.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#72
And so it never crossed your mind that maybe the Bible is not filled with so much treasure to the end one could continue to study and never reach the end of learned? But that folks just don't understand it and that's why they keep reading it? And please keep in mind that I did not just write that the Bible is not filled with treasure. I wrote the bible may not be filled with so much treasure TO THE END ONE COULD CONTINUE TO STUDY AND NEVER REACH THE END OF LEARNING. I know from experience so many here like to take my words out of context when quoting me.
All die not receiving the promise. Hebrew 11:39

We will be continuing to learn from the Bible. God's law, our daily bread until the last day

Mankind like Adam lived to be a thousand years .And still could not guess the thoughts of God that work in the believer to both will and do the good pleasure of God. No man will be found with a self-righteousness of the own

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

many refuse to learn they come under "hard sayings". Not hard to understand but offence to their learning they refuse to believe and walk away faithless or clueless .as those offended. The gospel the righteousness of God is our defense not offence.

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? John6: 60-62

Now if you do not need to add to your learning .Why even discuss the matter with those simple ones who do need?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#73
And so it never crossed your mind that maybe the Bible is not filled with so much treasure to the end one could continue to study and never reach the end of learned? But that folks just don't understand it and that's why they keep reading it? And please keep in mind that I did not just write that the Bible is not filled with treasure.
I do not believe you have reached the end of learning all Scripture has to teach you.

One of the reasons I believe you need to continue studying all of Scripture is that you tried to use Rom 5:13 to support the truth that there is no sin in Christ and His righteousness.

Here is what I submitted in Post #63:

"I agree there is no sin in Christ and His righteousness. I do not agree Romans 5:13 is the verse to use to support that truth. You have plucked one verse out of its context and pointed to it as having confirmed your statement.
So now you have taken a verse which does not apply to your point and you have improperly applied it to your point.
Find another verse which accurately reflects the truth you want to convey. Just don't use Rom 5:13 to support the statement "there's no sin in Christ and his righteousness" or that anyone was "sinless" during the time before the law of Moses because Rom 5:13 clearly states "sin was in the world" before the law of Moses and even though there was no law, there was definitely judgment of God due to sin during that time period."




Peterlag said:
I wrote the bible may not be filled with so much treasure TO THE END ONE COULD CONTINUE TO STUDY AND NEVER REACH THE END OF LEARNING.
Clearly you need to continue to study all of Scripture because you have not reached THE END OF LEARNING.




Peterlag said:
I know from experience so many here like to take my words out of context when quoting me.
Oh, I get it ... you can take God's Word out of context, but then come apart at the seams when you believe you are at the receiving end??? :rolleyes:



 
Jun 15, 2020
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#74
I do not believe you have reached the end of learning all Scripture has to teach you.

One of the reasons I believe you need to continue studying all of Scripture is that you tried to use Rom 5:13 to support the truth that there is no sin in Christ and His righteousness.

Here is what I submitted in Post #63:

"I agree there is no sin in Christ and His righteousness. I do not agree Romans 5:13 is the verse to use to support that truth. You have plucked one verse out of its context and pointed to it as having confirmed your statement.
So now you have taken a verse which does not apply to your point and you have improperly applied it to your point.
Find another verse which accurately reflects the truth you want to convey. Just don't use Rom 5:13 to support the statement "there's no sin in Christ and his righteousness" or that anyone was "sinless" during the time before the law of Moses because Rom 5:13 clearly states "sin was in the world" before the law of Moses and even though there was no law, there was definitely judgment of God due to sin during that time period."





Clearly you need to continue to study all of Scripture because you have not reached THE END OF LEARNING.





Oh, I get it ... you can take God's Word out of context, but then come apart at the seams when you believe you are at the receiving end??? :rolleyes:
If you would enjoy more verses on sin. Then here's what I wrote on sin...

So let's begin by looking at these 11 verses and keep in mind they do seem to be speaking about our time right now and not for some time into the future. We see this with statements like "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law." Well, I'm not under the law right now. Or "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not." I'm born of God right now. Or "being made free from sin, and become servants to God." I'm a servant to God right now.

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." Romans begins with Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In Colossians we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

The last verse I'm going to mention has "in him" again. From 1 John we read "that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." We cannot sin in him because there's no sin in him and this is why "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#75
If you would enjoy more verses on sin.
I would enjoy you not telling my dear brother Blain that Romans 5:13 supports your statement [ " Everything is about being sinless because there's no sin in Christ and his righteousness " ].

What you have done is take a verse of Scripture which is unrelated to your point and then hold that verse out as having supported your point.

Clearly, you have not "graduated" from your need to read ALL of Scripture and, furthermore, to rightly divide ALL of Scripture.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.




And I take your obfuscation in not answering the question I asked in Post #68 ...


as an unequivocal "NO" ... you do not read all of Scripture.



 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#76
I would enjoy you not telling my dear brother Blain that Romans 5:13 supports your statement [ " Everything is about being sinless because there's no sin in Christ and his righteousness " ].

What you have done is take a verse of Scripture which is unrelated to your point and then hold that verse out as having supported your point.

Clearly, you have not "graduated" from your need to read ALL of Scripture and, furthermore, to rightly divide ALL of Scripture.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.




And I take your obfuscation in not answering the question I asked in Post #68 ...


as an unequivocal "NO" ... you do not read all of Scripture.
Thank you my friend for defending me and also for correcting Peter
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
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#77
As for you Peter you focus to much on sin when we are to be lead by grace. It's like what I see in churches plenty of churches preach on sin and not sinning how to not fall into temptation ect. but how often is salvation taught? How often are words spoken and taught to edify encourage and build the church up?

Take your eyes off of the law of sin and look to the cross where grace love and righteousness is.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#78
We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands.
Why do you believe that those of us who are cognizant of the warnings God gives to the believer in the Church epistles and live in light of the truth of God's Word concerning those warnings believe that "our obedience to written laws are necessary" for "salvation and righteousness"?

Has it ever dawned on you that the reason believers heed God's warnings have everything to do with abiding in the Lord Jesus Christ ... warning us to not be drawn away from Him? If we pay no mind to God's warnings to us (you included), we (you included) may just find the works of the flesh exhibited in our lives. When we abide in the Vine, the result is "much fruit" ...

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.



 
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#80
I'm a righteous man which is why the law does not apply to me. But now in the new covenant, we are not just covered up, but we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ, who entered into the holy of holies, the glorious presence of God’s heart once and for all. Jesus Christ in being the ultimate sacrificial lamb had only to fulfill God’s specifications for the Passover.

The High Priest was the head of the priesthood, functioning as the head of the Temple, and the official representative between God and Israel. To carry out such a responsibility he was forbidden any impure contact that might defile him. Only he could enter once a year in the innermost part of the sanctuary of the Temple, known as the holy of holies where the sacred Ark of the Covenant was kept, to proclaim divine revelations, having the exclusive privilege of consulting God directly. Appeal to him could be made in any matter because he exercised supreme authority over the worship and the Temple, as the mediator between God and Israel.

Jesus Christ is the perfect High Priest, who took upon himself the sins of the entire world, and is the mediator of the new covenant between God and us. The Temple was a temporary place where one would go for divine blessing in building form, but now it is in Christ, who is a permanent place, where one needs to go for divine blessing because of the new covenant God has with Christ.

In the new covenant, we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ, who entered into heaven itself to appear in the holy of holies, the sacred chamber of the heart of God’s glorious presence for us. Jesus Christ is the promised seed and faithful High Priest, who fulfilled all the law, and is set between God and us—because he is connected to both sides, and thereby he is able to work with God and with us. My mind boggles over God’s heart of love, His compassion, and the tenderness to have Jesus Christ, who is the greatest food of all time, the bread of life, to establish a true and vital spiritual relationship between God and us.
Less is often more.