Have You Received the Holy Ghost Since You Believed?

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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#81
i pray for the holy ghost but i don't feel anything different
The good news is that you do t have to feel anything about it. Jesus said be believing. So trust the word not your feelings. Feelings can be very deceptive. The word is solid and true.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#83
Peter is not speaking to water baptism in this passage in Acts 2. Peter is addressing the baptism produced when one believes into Christ which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit unto salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Peter did specifically tell them to be baptized and they were. We know that he was talking about baptism in water because in Acts 10 he said who can forbid water to baptize those who had just been baptized with the Holy Spirit. So if Peter said to baptize those in Acts 10 in water after they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues then this should help confirm any doubts you had about him talking about water when the 3000 were baptized. You could also check a couple of commentaries and they will help you understand also.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
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#84
Peter is not speaking to water baptism in this passage in Acts 2. Peter is addressing the baptism produced when one believes into Christ which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit unto salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The word provides evidence that the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is in fact water baptism. Peter makes a clear distinction between being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus (water) and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. (baptism of the Holy Ghost)

Also, the following scriptures make it obvious that water baptism along with receiving the Holy Ghost was the consistent message given. Please take the time to read Acts 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:5-6, 22:16.

John the Baptist introduced water baptism that never ceased being administered. The only difference to water baptism was the use of Jesus' name after after His death, burial and resurrection. Jesus mentions this in Luke 24:47. Without Jesus' sacrifice water baptism would be nothing but an empty ritual.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
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#85
Every verse you or I quote is to fit the narrative we wish to convey. Jesus used many parables to illustrate truths. If you cannot convey Gods standards in any other way than to look up a verse and quote it verbatim, then you may fall short of the wisdom you wish to convey. Jesus, and the Apostles explained many OT verses with up to date motifs.

Our job as Christians is to define that Love and Peace Jesus so often speaks of. To boil doctrine down to a list of do’s & don’ts is to be like the religious people of His day.

Many today promote a “relative” righteousness. By that I mean that compared to the “unsaved” and unsure, you may view yourself as doing good. According to Gods standard, we all fall short. That is the standard we must keep uppermost in our thoughts. Jesus said, “You or I can do nothing without Him.” Unless our actions are motivated and empowered by the Holy Spirit, then we are acting carnal, no matter how good those works look.

I don’t preach easy believeism, I have endured and learned more through extreme suffering than during any period of prosperity. Our faith has a cost. All real love requires personal sacrifice. The Holy Spirit is a gift given by God. We are “Indwelt” at the point of salvation. We are commanded after we are saved to be “Filled” with the Spirit. Therein lies the problem that many Christians have, they dont understand the differenence.

You seem quite sincere, but sincereity is not the litmus test for maturity.
The word will not return void. It is always the best weapon for combating error as evidenced by Jesus words to Satan, "It is written." Many refuse to accept what the word literally states. Well, I believe that since Jesus said everyone will be judged by the word that belief and obedience to what it says is paramount.

You state one is indwelt with the Spirit at the point of salvation. I guess you mean the moment one believes Jesus is the Messiah. Please provide proof of your belief with actual scripture. One cannot be reborn spiritually without the actual infilling of the Holy Spirit into one's body. This truth is witnessed by the biblical records I provided in the first post.

As far as maturity I have been serving the Lord for many, many years. He empowers me through the indwelling of His Spirit. And He certainly is well aware of my motivation.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#86
Peter did specifically tell them to be baptized and they were. We know that he was talking about baptism in water because in Acts 10 he said who can forbid water to baptize those who had just been baptized with the Holy Spirit. So if Peter said to baptize those in Acts 10 in water after they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues then this should help confirm any doubts you had about him talking about water when the 3000 were baptized. You could also check a couple of commentaries and they will help you understand also.
In Acts 10:47 you are correct. Water baptism is administered after Holy Spirit baptism. Holy Spirit baptism is administered by God the moment we believe into Christ. Acts 2 is not about water baptism but Holy Spirit baptism.

Acts 8 we have Philip and the eunuch where water baptism is given after confession of belief into Christ.

The point is and remains that water baptism has no effect on salvation. One is not more or less saved based on water baptism. Believers are led of the Holy Spirit to receive water baptism but the Holy Spirit is already present in their heart before they are water baptized.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#87
The word provides evidence that the baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is in fact water baptism. Peter makes a clear distinction between being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus (water) and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. (baptism of the Holy Ghost)

Also, the following scriptures make it obvious that water baptism along with receiving the Holy Ghost was the consistent message given. Please take the time to read Acts 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:5-6, 22:16.

John the Baptist introduced water baptism that never ceased being administered. The only difference to water baptism was the use of Jesus' name after after His death, burial and resurrection. Jesus mentions this in Luke 24:47. Without Jesus' sacrifice water baptism would be nothing but an empty ritual.
John's baptism was a baptism unto repentance to prepare men for the appearance of Christ. John's baptism never added anything to the salvation that Christ alone can give.

You continue to impute to water baptism virtue that God does not impute. You are in fact presenting a false doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
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#88
well wan,
if we, haven't, then we might as well 'kill ourselves'...
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,335
640
113
#89
The word will not return void. It is always the best weapon for combating error as evidenced by Jesus words to Satan, "It is written." Many refuse to accept what the word literally states. Well, I believe that since Jesus said everyone will be judged by the word that belief and obedience to what it says is paramount.

You state one is indwelt with the Spirit at the point of salvation. I guess you mean the moment one believes Jesus is the Messiah. Please provide proof of your belief with actual scripture. One cannot be reborn spiritually without the actual infilling of the Holy Spirit into one's body. This truth is witnessed by the biblical records I provided in the first post.

As far as maturity I have been serving the Lord for many, many years. He empowers me through the indwelling of His Spirit. And He certainly is well aware of my motivation.
You misuse the Biblical terms associated with the Holy Spirit. Being indwelt or baptized and being filled are two distinct functions and until you can seperate the two you cannot properly exegete the Scriptures.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#90
Peter did specifically tell them to be baptized and they were. We know that he was talking about baptism in water because in Acts 10 he said who can forbid water to baptize those who had just been baptized with the Holy Spirit. So if Peter said to baptize those in Acts 10 in water after they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues then this should help confirm any doubts you had about him talking about water when the 3000 were baptized. You could also check a couple of commentaries and they will help you understand also.
You should avoid using Acts to form doctrine. Acts is an account detailing how Israel as a nation has fallen, and how God revealed a new plan to save gentiles thru their fall.

So in Acts 10, Peter was not expecting anything to happen to Cornelius and his household. Since the nation Israel has not repented yet, the gentiles cannot be reached by them.

Yet, without following the Law, without circumcision, without water baptism, God poured the HS into them, indicated a change in that timetable.

When he allowed them to be water baptized, he is just trying to catch up with this new revelation. It is not meant for us now to form a doctrine out of that order.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#91
You should avoid using Acts to form doctrine. Acts is an account detailing how Israel as a nation has fallen, and how God revealed a new plan to save gentiles thru their fall.

So in Acts 10, Peter was not expecting anything to happen to Cornelius and his household. Since the nation Israel has not repented yet, the gentiles cannot be reached by them.

Yet, without following the Law, without circumcision, without water baptism, God poured the HS into them, indicated a change in that timetable.

When he allowed them to be water baptized, he is just trying to catch up with this new revelation. It is not meant for us now to form a doctrine out of that order.
All scripture is profitable for doctrine especially the book of Acts.
Luke was a theologian in his own right and had a clear theological intent as to what he recorded in Acts and what he left out. Lucan Pneumantology traces this and most evangelical theologians today realize that Acts is very useful for doctrine. Luke emphasizes the normative practice and experience of both water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues for all the first converts across the geographic landscape among every group of people who first came into the church. The book of Acts inspires every new Christian today and imparts faith in the heart when read to ask for this same power from on high to fulfill our ministry and God is faithful to grant it to all who ask, seek, and knock.
And Peter baptized them in water because he clearly understood the mandate of Christ to do so as an unbaptized christian was not an idea entertained in new testament.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#92
And Peter baptized them in water because he clearly understood the mandate of Christ to do so as an unbaptized christian was not an idea entertained in new testament.
In the first place, he told Cornelius at Acts 10 that it was against the Law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile. And he and the others were astonished that God poured the Holy Spirit into Gentiles.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#93
In the first place, he told Cornelius at Acts 10 that it was against the Law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile. And he and the others were astonished that God poured the Holy Spirit into Gentiles.
And so knowing that were indeed to be part of the church he knew they were to be baptized as all believers are to be baptized in waters as an unbaptized Christian is not an idea entertained by the New Testament.. F.F. Bruce
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#94
In the first place, he told Cornelius at Acts 10 that it was against the Law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile. And he and the others were astonished that God poured the Holy Spirit into Gentiles.
He also told him how God has shown him not to call them unclean. So there is that. You are trying to make it look like Peter was baptizing them in water because he was confused and doing it from his own lack of understanding about what God really wanted. I don't think you will find that interpretation in any commentary in the last 2000 years.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#95
He also told him how God has shown him not to call them unclean. So there is that. You are trying to make it look like Peter was baptizing them in water because he was confused and doing it from his own lack of understanding about what God really wanted. I don't think you will find that interpretation in any commentary in the last 2000 years.
I am not claiming he is confused. I am claiming that he only realised then that God has changed in the salvation requirement, that Israel might have lost her status as God’s favourite nation
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#96
I am not claiming he is confused. I am claiming that he only realised then that God has changed in the salvation requirement, that Israel might have lost her status as God’s favourite nation
He was getting the revelation that there was no breaking of the Law or displeasing of God in going into the house of a gentile eating with them etc. This was the beginning of laying down life long habits that were considered scriptural. And yes he got the revelation that they were to be accepted as part of the church with no difference in the eyes of the Lord. Just as saved, and just as filled with the Holy Spirit for power to be witnesses to their salvation. He knew that from this group would go forth evangelist with the power of the Holy Spirit imparted gifts.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#97
He was getting the revelation that there was no breaking of the Law or displeasing of God in going into the house of a gentile eating with them etc. This was the beginning of laying down life long habits that were considered scriptural. And yes he got the revelation that they were to be accepted as part of the church with no difference in the eyes of the Lord. Just as saved, and just as filled with the Holy Spirit for power to be witnesses to their salvation. He knew that from this group would go forth evangelist with the power of the Holy Spirit imparted gifts.
So you agree that Matthew 28 gc is meant for the 12 to make sure Israel as a nation must accept Jesus first, before the other nations could be reached?
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#98
So you agree that Matthew 28 gc is meant for the 12 to make sure Israel as a nation must accept Jesus first, before the other nations could be reached?
The command is to go baptize all nations. I don't understand your theology. I have tried several times but I think I almost hurt myself trying to figure out what you were trying to say so I quit trying. You seem to march to the beat of your own drum and I have no idea what you are talking about. :confused:
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#99
The command is to go baptize all nations. I don't understand your theology. I have tried several times but I think I almost hurt myself trying to figure out what you were trying to say so I quit trying. You seem to march to the beat of your own drum and I have no idea what you are talking about. :confused:
He follows the teachings of mid acts dispensationalist ... Les Feldick
If you want to waste your time his false teachings are on You Tube.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,712
1,030
113
You misuse the Biblical terms associated with the Holy Spirit. Being indwelt or baptized and being filled are two distinct functions and until you can seperate the two you cannot properly exegete the Scriptures.
Please provide scripture evidence that being indwelt, filled and baptized by the Holy Spirit are not one in the same.