Christ is God

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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But about the Son He says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, Your God, has set You above your companions
by anointing You with the oil of joy.”
He also says,
In the beginning, Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

They will perish, but You remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But You remain the same,
and Your years will never end.”

(Hebrews 1:8-12)
the author of Hebrews is quoting in vv. 10-12, Psalm 102:25-28
he is saying this is about the Son -- and Psalm 102 is 100% definitely about the LORD God Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth.
the author of Hebrews is identifying the Lord Jesus as the LORD
and he is doing so as though it isn't something his readers should think twice about -- as though it is absolutely customary that they should think of the LORD in the OT as being identified as the Lord in the NT -- that Christ is God


"You remain the same" is written about the LORD God in Psalm 102.
in Hebrews it is attributed to Jesus.


Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
(Hebrews 13:8)
 
Apr 14, 2020
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Matthew 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
Ah. I get it. If I name my son Immanuel he will be God.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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How one could not see Jesus is God is beyond me. It is so clearly stated in scripture so many times. The mental gymnastics it takes to avoid this fact show a major bias.

Not one good argument against this fact, many proof positive statements He is God from scripture for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,110
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If I name my son Immanuel he will be God.
Matthew 1 -

22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin will be with child [...]


...so, to your question, I would say... 'no' ;)





23 e Literally they will call His name Immanuel; Isaiah 7:14 (see also DSS)
23 f See Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 8:8, and Isaiah 8:10.

Isaiah 8 ^ -
8 It will pour into Judah,
swirling and sweeping over it,
reaching up to the neck;
its spreading streams will cover
your entire land, O Immanuel!d
9 Huddle together,e O peoples, and be shattered;
pay attention, all you distant lands;
prepare for battle, and be shattered;
prepare for battle, and be shattered!
10 Devise a plan, but it will be thwarted;
state a proposal, but it will not happen.
For God is with us.f
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
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Hi,

There is a way to understand God, which shows that neither Christ nor Jesus are God. It involves making a diagram and identifying the positions of Almighty God, and those who are delegated below Him. --- They are not a trinity as is supposed, but are from different times in History past. --- Jehovah represented Almighty God as a 'heavenly Father,' --- The Word (Logos) is identified in John 1 as both God and Son of God. John 1:1 and John 1:18.--- And the Holy Spirit is ageless. --- So to make a diagram:
--- Cut a piece of stiff paper three or four inches square. --- Mark the corners 1, 2, 3, and 4. --- With a ruler and pencil mark across the center both ways from 1-3, and 2-4. --- Fold the paper over and crease it both ways on the pencil lines across the center from 1-3, and 2-4. --- Take a scissors and cut from corner 4 to the center.. --- Overlap the sides, 3 over 4 and glue or paste. --- You will now have a three cornered shape with the center raised.
--- On the raised center you can write or initial ALMIGHTY GOD (Yachid, the Jewish name for One God).
This is the right understanding, but ALMIGHTY GOD is remote from us, and we can’t attain unto Him.
--- And the three corners are identified in 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.” --- (One in union, harmony and purpose.)

ALMIGHTY GOD is Sovereign, Transcendent, Omnipotent (all powerful), Omniscient (all knowing), Omnipresent (ever present through His Holy Spirit), Self existent, and Self sufficient.
ALMIGHTY GOD has attributes and abilities to create and sustain His creation by populating it with 'orders of angels' and those He commissions to representing Himself as ‘God’ in His creation.

--- On corner 1, write, “The Father,” who is a personable God we know as Jehovah, a heavenly Father, who can relate to mankind with names in the Scriptures like Jehovah-Jireh (Jehovah will provide); Jehovah-Shalom (Jehovah is peace); Jehovah –Tsidkenu (Jehovah is our righteousness). There is no record of when Jehovah was chosen to represent God in ‘Eternity Past.’
--- On corner 2 write, “The Word” (Logos) 'through whom all things were made,' --- meaning all things that pertain to our world. John 1:1-3. Also in John 1:1 it says “The Word was God” --- (The Word was commissioned by God to represent Him on Earth in the plan of redemption through Christ Jesus.) The Word was a created Being and came on the scene at a later time in ‘Eternity Past’ but before the appearance of our planet Earth.

--- And the Word was represented in Christ where it says in John 1:14, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” --- So the Word and Christ were manifested in the physical body of Jesus. --- It says in 2 Corinthians 5:19 "That is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself."

--- And on corner 3 write, “The Holy Spirit,” --- Originally there was the Spirit of God with Almighty God, --- but then, as God multiplied His creation, He also multiplied angels, they became the 'servants of God' as the ‘eyes and ears’ who monitored God’s creation as it expanded, even down to us, as it says in Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister (in service) for those who will inherit salvation?
--- So we have a diagram to look at and consider, to see if this does not identify ALMIGHTY GOD as above all, on the raised top. --- And His organization on earth, under the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, --- plus His angels and those He has chosen and commissioned. --- But Jehovah. The Word, and the multiple ‘Holy angels’ are separate Beings that serve God in His plan of Redemption. --- (Lots to ponder and meditate on.)
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
Hi,

There is a way to understand God, which shows that neither Christ nor Jesus are God. It involves making a diagram and identifying the positions of Almighty God, and those who are delegated below Him. --- They are not a trinity as is supposed, but are from different times in History past. --- Jehovah represented Almighty God as a 'heavenly Father,' --- The Word (Logos) is identified in John 1 as both God and Son of God. John 1:1 and John 1:18.--- And the Holy Spirit is ageless. --- So to make a diagram:
--- Cut a piece of stiff paper three or four inches square. --- Mark the corners 1, 2, 3, and 4. --- With a ruler and pencil mark across the center both ways from 1-3, and 2-4. --- Fold the paper over and crease it both ways on the pencil lines across the center from 1-3, and 2-4. --- Take a scissors and cut from corner 4 to the center.. --- Overlap the sides, 3 over 4 and glue or paste. --- You will now have a three cornered shape with the center raised.
--- On the raised center you can write or initial ALMIGHTY GOD (Yachid, the Jewish name for One God).
This is the right understanding, but ALMIGHTY GOD is remote from us, and we can’t attain unto Him.
--- And the three corners are identified in 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.” --- (One in union, harmony and purpose.)

ALMIGHTY GOD is Sovereign, Transcendent, Omnipotent (all powerful), Omniscient (all knowing), Omnipresent (ever present through His Holy Spirit), Self existent, and Self sufficient.
ALMIGHTY GOD has attributes and abilities to create and sustain His creation by populating it with 'orders of angels' and those He commissions to representing Himself as ‘God’ in His creation.

--- On corner 1, write, “The Father,” who is a personable God we know as Jehovah, a heavenly Father, who can relate to mankind with names in the Scriptures like Jehovah-Jireh (Jehovah will provide); Jehovah-Shalom (Jehovah is peace); Jehovah –Tsidkenu (Jehovah is our righteousness). There is no record of when Jehovah was chosen to represent God in ‘Eternity Past.’
--- On corner 2 write, “The Word” (Logos) 'through whom all things were made,' --- meaning all things that pertain to our world. John 1:1-3. Also in John 1:1 it says “The Word was God” --- (The Word was commissioned by God to represent Him on Earth in the plan of redemption through Christ Jesus.) The Word was a created Being and came on the scene at a later time in ‘Eternity Past’ but before the appearance of our planet Earth.

--- And the Word was represented in Christ where it says in John 1:14, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” --- So the Word and Christ were manifested in the physical body of Jesus. --- It says in 2 Corinthians 5:19 "That is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself."

--- And on corner 3 write, “The Holy Spirit,” --- Originally there was the Spirit of God with Almighty God, --- but then, as God multiplied His creation, He also multiplied angels, they became the 'servants of God' as the ‘eyes and ears’ who monitored God’s creation as it expanded, even down to us, as it says in Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister (in service) for those who will inherit salvation?
--- So we have a diagram to look at and consider, to see if this does not identify ALMIGHTY GOD as above all, on the raised top. --- And His organization on earth, under the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, --- plus His angels and those He has chosen and commissioned. --- But Jehovah. The Word, and the multiple ‘Holy angels’ are separate Beings that serve God in His plan of Redemption. --- (Lots to ponder and meditate on.)

Sounds like heretical origami to me.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
Hi Posthuman,

I would like to ask if there is a verse in the Gospels where it says, Christ is God? Or a verse where Christ said, “I am God”?

Before the Sanhedrin He acknowledged being the Son of God, but the term ‘son of’ does not mean the same as, but speaks of a second generation, --- and most places in the Gospels, Christ is called the Son of Man, which speaks of a few Generations from the first creation of Almighty God, the ‘First Cause.’

Hi One of His,

I would also like to ask you if there is a verse in the Gospels that says Jesus is God? Or a verse where Jesus said “I am God”?

However, there is verse that say the ‘Word was God,’- John 1:1
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
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However, there are verses that say the ‘Word was God," John 1:1
In the Greek English interlinear New Testament it identifies the two that are called God, this way.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God (Theov) and the Word was God (Theos).
--- I asked a Greek scholar what was the difference and He said that (Theos) is subject to (Theov). --- That (Theov) was the Father, and (Theos) was the Son.
--- To study this further it also says in 1:3 All things were made through Him (the Word) and without Him nothing was made that was made.
10 He (the Word) was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own (creation or domain), and His own (people) did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him (the Word, revealed to the world in Jesus Christ), to them He gave the power (or right) to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God (who had the new birth experience).
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
18 NKJB No one has seen God (Theov) at any time. The only begotten [h]Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
--- The [h] on Son gives a footnote that says ‘God,’ --- So that would read ‘only begotten God (Theos)’
In the New American Standard Bible it says, “No one has seen God (Theov) at any time. The only begotten [h] God (Theos), He has declared Him,” --- and the footnote says, ‘only begotten Son’
The New International or NIV says, “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.” --- Here the footnote says --- some manuscripts say ‘one and only Son’.
--- So the Word was both the only begotten God (Theos), and the only begotten Son --- who revealed God (Theov) to the world, --- and through whom all things were made.
---In Hebrews it says in 1:2 “Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds.”
---It was through the Word that God made the worlds, was it not? --- And “Having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.”

---So what was the better name that He received? --- These verses have been used above:
1:8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth."
--- So the new name given was, the ‘Anointed One,’ --- “Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
--- So when Satan, who had been the ‘Anointed Cherub’ --- As it says of him in Ezekiel 28:15 “You were perfect in your way from the day you were created until iniquity was found in you.” --- So Satan was cast out of heaven, and a third of the Cherubim were cast out with him and down to the earth, Revelation 12:4 and 9.

--- So the Cherubim needed a new Leader, and a choice was made as it said above, 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
--- “More that Your Companions” means that 'the Word' was chosen 'by His companions,' to be their leader, the new Anointed Cherub, --- And He is called God (Theos).
Christ was not chosen from among companions, was He?
Jesus was not chosen from among companions, was He?
 
Apr 14, 2020
263
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Hi Posthuman,

I would like to ask if there is a verse in the Gospels where it says, Christ is God? Or a verse where Christ said, “I am God”?

Before the Sanhedrin He acknowledged being the Son of God, but the term ‘son of’ does not mean the same as, but speaks of a second generation, --- and most places in the Gospels, Christ is called the Son of Man, which speaks of a few Generations from the first creation of Almighty God, the ‘First Cause.’

Hi One of His,

I would also like to ask you if there is a verse in the Gospels that says Jesus is God? Or a verse where Jesus said “I am God”?

However, there is verse that say the ‘Word was God,’- John 1:1
Jesus is God. God is Jesus.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
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Hi Posthuman,

I would like to ask if there is a verse in the Gospels where it says, Christ is God? Or a verse where Christ said, “I am God”?

Before the Sanhedrin He acknowledged being the Son of God, but the term ‘son of’ does not mean the same as, but speaks of a second generation, --- and most places in the Gospels, Christ is called the Son of Man, which speaks of a few Generations from the first creation of Almighty God, the ‘First Cause.’

Hi One of His,

I would also like to ask you if there is a verse in the Gospels that says Jesus is God? Or a verse where Jesus said “I am God”?

However, there is verse that say the ‘Word was God,’- John 1:1
Are you a Moslem?
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
2,208
113
Hi One of His,

I would also like to ask you if there is a verse in the Gospels that says Jesus is God? Or a verse where Jesus said “I am God”?

However, there is verse that say the ‘Word was God,’- John 1:1
God made it very clear in many verses in proper context. If you are willing to have an honest discussion and not bounce around we can start with just a few verses including what you mentioned.

John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
_______

These verses in John 1 are clear

Jesus, always was.

Before He was made flesh, He was.


________
O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."


John 17 5 ^

To say Jesus is not God is to call Him a liar.
You would also have to say the bible is false. It can't be your authority if you disagree that the Word, God's only begotten son was God.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
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Hi BuffyLou,

Quote: Jesus is God. God is Jesus.

Response: --- I know this is what we were taught in some of our Churches, but do you have any verses that say this, or are there verses in the Gospels that say this?
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
Hi Dino246

Quote: Are you a Moslem?

Response: --- No, I am a Christian, but I have read and studied the Quran to see how much of the Gospel message is in it. --- I was surprised to find there is a lot.

Many Muslims believe in Jesus because His miraculous birth is recorded twice in detail. --- But they reject that He was the ‘Son of God,’ --- and that is why it is hard to witness to them because of the loud voices they have heard from Christians, that Jesus is God.
--- Also Christ is called the Messiah a number of times in the Quran. --- The Muslims don’t have a Savior or Messiah apart from Jesus the Savior and Christ the Messiah, so we have to show them even in their Quran where they have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved.

So, this is what I am asking. Where are the verses in our Scriptures, that confirm that Jesus, or Christ, were God. --- But it does say ‘the Word was God.’ --- Some say that Jesus is the Word, but there are no Scriptures that say this, are there?

It says in Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.”
--- Notice that the verse says. “That Holy One will be ‘called’ the Son of God.” --- And Jesus has been ‘called’ the Son of God from then till now.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
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Hi Posthuman,

I would like to ask if there is a verse in the Gospels where it says, Christ is God? Or a verse where Christ said, “I am God”?
Please read the thread.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
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So, this is what I am asking. Where are the verses in our Scriptures, that confirm that Jesus, or Christ, were God.
If you can take the time to read the Koran, you can take the time to read this thread.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
Hi BuffyLou,

Quote: Jesus is God. God is Jesus.

Response: --- I know this is what we were taught in some of our Churches, but do you have any verses that say this, or are there verses in the Gospels that say this?
Buffy isn't a Christian. She's a troll.

Read the thread.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,821
8,596
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Hi Dino246

Quote: Are you a Moslem?

Response: --- No, I am a Christian, but I have read and studied the Quran to see how much of the Gospel message is in it. --- I was surprised to find there is a lot.

Many Muslims believe in Jesus because His miraculous birth is recorded twice in detail. --- But they reject that He was the ‘Son of God,’ --- and that is why it is hard to witness to them because of the loud voices they have heard from Christians, that Jesus is God.
--- Also Christ is called the Messiah a number of times in the Quran. --- The Muslims don’t have a Savior or Messiah apart from Jesus the Savior and Christ the Messiah, so we have to show them even in their Quran where they have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved.

So, this is what I am asking. Where are the verses in our Scriptures, that confirm that Jesus, or Christ, were God. --- But it does say ‘the Word was God.’ --- Some say that Jesus is the Word, but there are no Scriptures that say this, are there?

It says in Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.”
--- Notice that the verse says. “That Holy One will be ‘called’ the Son of God.” --- And Jesus has been ‘called’ the Son of God from then till now.
I just recently found out that Muslims think it was Ishmael that Abraham was going to Sacrifice, not Issac.

If they are so foundationally wrong on that, I wouldn’t trust the Koran for anything it had to say.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
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the purpose i have in mind for this thread is not for being mired in pointless arguments. the evidence is clear, and i mean for this to be a place to collect it so that it can be further proclaimed.
of course i have no control over what others do and say, but only what i do -- so let's get back on track, shall we?


He who comes from above is above all;
he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth.
He who comes from heaven is above all.
(John 3:31)
the One from above is above all

You are from beneath; I am from above
(John 8:23)
Jesus the Christ is the One from above
((& the only one, see John 3:13))

the obvious objection will be raised:

My Father is greater than I
(John 14:28)
above all yet there is one greater ? :unsure:
there is only one reconciliation of these two things:


I and The Father are One
(John 10:30)
Christ is God
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
a verse where Jesus said “I am God”
i will repeat this once because you are too lazy to read the thread.

John 20:26-29 ---

Jesus: do not be unbelieving, but believing
Thomas: my Lord and my God
Jesus: you have believed
Q.E.D.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
Hi Dino246

Quote: Are you a Moslem?

Response: --- No, I am a Christian, but I have read and studied the Quran to see how much of the Gospel message is in it. --- I was surprised to find there is a lot.

Many Muslims believe in Jesus because His miraculous birth is recorded twice in detail. --- But they reject that He was the ‘Son of God,’ --- and that is why it is hard to witness to them because of the loud voices they have heard from Christians, that Jesus is God.
--- Also Christ is called the Messiah a number of times in the Quran. --- The Muslims don’t have a Savior or Messiah apart from Jesus the Savior and Christ the Messiah, so we have to show them even in their Quran where they have to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved.

So, this is what I am asking. Where are the verses in our Scriptures, that confirm that Jesus, or Christ, were God. --- But it does say ‘the Word was God.’ --- Some say that Jesus is the Word, but there are no Scriptures that say this, are there?

It says in Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.”
--- Notice that the verse says. “That Holy One will be ‘called’ the Son of God.” --- And Jesus has been ‘called’ the Son of God from then till now.
If you're a Christian, why are you asking other Christians the same misquided questions that Moslems ask? You should know full well that Jesus does not specifically state, "I am God" but that He says other things that make it perfectly clear that He claimed to be God. What the Moselms believe about Him is not the subject of this thread.