Women cannot have authority in the congregation.

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Feb 28, 2016
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dear beloved Lenna,
may we learn and take on our Saviour's Spirit of Love...
for sure not an easy thing, but, 'doable' by His Grace...
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Please don't take Paul out of his context. His message to Corinth was specifically for that audience. Since Paul elsewhere values women and appoints them as leaders in the early churches (Phoebe is just one example of that—there’s also Chloe, Junia, and many more), it seems highly unlikely that he meant to bar EVERY woman from ever speaking in a church assembly.
I fully concur with your estimation. Paul saying "I do not permit" is not the same as God saying that. I believe that Paul was offering his own personal opinion when addressing the culture and traditions at the time. Context is critical. Also, there was Deborah, appointed by God in a position of authority as a judge over the entire nation of Israel.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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I understand what you are saying .

I don't pretend to know all and have never said that I do and I am open to learning and always have been. I think I made it clear with regards to the problems I saw in her posts but she no longer seems to want to own what she said

for me, it's clear enough so I am done with it
Thanks
It's all good. We are family here and at times there is the occasional squabble. I enjoy your posts too, even the ones that I am not in full agreement with. :)
 
L

lenna

Guest
dear beloved Lenna,
may we learn and take on our Saviour's Spirit of Love...
for sure not an easy thing, but, 'doable'...
that's much nicer

protecting error is not love
 
S

Scribe

Guest
I love your humor!! :giggle:(y) Well, let's look at the scripture......


Acts 16:16-19 New International Version (NIV)

16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.

17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”

18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

19 When her owners realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities.

Paul cast the spirit of divination out of a women that could tell peoples' futures and her owners made money off of her.

She had to be very accurate or her owners would NOT have made money off of her.

If she was "faking" the fortune telling she would have been able to continue "faking" and her owners would not have been upset at all.

That spirit of divination operated from the Spiritual Realm and could see certain things about people in the spirit, after Paul cast the spirit of divination out of her, she could not tell fortunes anymore.

God rules from the Heavenly Realm - which is hidden from the Spiritual Realm. All these new agers, mystics and spiritualist people operate from the Spiritual Realm but, the Heavenly Realm is higher.

Paul could cast out demons and this spirit of divination because he operates from the Heavenly Realm where he is seated with Jesus Christ according to the Father's Will, even though he was physically on Earth.

God is in supreme control - no one does anything except God allows it. The Spiritual Realm knows nothing unless God releases it from the Heavenly Realm.
I used to have a girl friend that was a Tarot Card reader. I know how it works. I have seen people absolutely amazed that she could "read their mail" this is what the demon spirit helped the girl do. There is no doubt that the demon spirit gave her an uncanny way of knowing things. This however would not be the kind of foretelling of future events that God is talking about only he can do.

The Holy Spirit will not say one thing in Isaiah then contradict it in Acts. We have to make them reconcile. How do you reconcile that the ability to declare the future is a Divine attribute in Isaiah and not one in Acts. You can't. You must conclude that the girl lost her ability to say those things that made her creepy, like maybe telling someone where to look to find a lost coin in their house. Or which house their wayward son is shacked up with a prostitute. Things that made her of reputation as a fortune teller that was indeed real but not the Divine attribute of being able to really tell their future. You cannot ignore Isaiah 41 in your interrpretation.
There is absolutely no knowledge you can have about what they see about the future in the spiritual realm from any scriptures we have discussed so far. That is just some guess about the way things might be in the spiritual realm on your part.
At this point I think you should concede that Isaiah 41 must be taken into account and that you agree that this girl could not actually tell the future because only God can do that. You could word your concession something like... Scribe is correct and I concede that... Or you could skip that part and just agree that we must include Isaiah 41 in our interpretation. :love:
 
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lenna

Guest
It's all good. We are family here and at times there is the occasional squabble. I enjoy your posts too, even the ones that I am not in full agreement with. :)

fair enough :) I have no illusions about all believers all being in agreement all the time.

if we believe in Christ altogether then we are doing it right
 
Feb 28, 2016
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that's much nicer

protecting error is not love
======================================
no one has the ability to 'protect God' =
but yes, we do and can get offended for Him in our Love and thankfulness,
when some disrespect Him...
I, myself think that this is a very precious thing that comes from our devoted, everlasting Love for Him'
and, it will never cease...
 
L

lenna

Guest
======================================
no one has the ability to 'protect God' =
but yes, we do and can get offended for Him...
I, myself think that this is a very precious thing that comes from our devoted, everlasting Love for Him'
and, it will never cease...
we are to expose error

there were 2 errors. one in the condescending way she broke into the thread and continued that for the most part

and the other far more grievous error was being told we only need the Holy Spirit.

I am sure you know of many who are led astray while professing speaking in tongues, miracles, prophecies etc

I think you know what I mean. this is what comes from those who refuse instruction and put their experiences before the word

saying you follow the Holy Spirit and don't need further instruction can be a recipe for disaster. If God has not called you to teach you should not be teaching. sadly, that is the reverse of accepting whatever. neither is correct

God gave to the church (body) the spirit gift of teaching for a reason. Paul gave instruction and correction for a reason.

ignoring that leads to deception. period
 
G

Gerlinde24

Guest
You have two options when you face the Bible: (1) believe that it was both divinely inspired and divinely preserved, therefore it is inerrant and infallible or (2) believe the nonsense published by unbelieving scholars who have attacked the Bible at every opportunity.
You summed it up well. Let me say it in my own words: either you believe something that is not proven, for which there is not even evidence; or you believe where there is already evidence from scientists.
As I told you here, I was with the JW. One of their favorite tricks is to promise that one should ask God in prayer. The Holy Spirit would give me the answer. I prayed, but I was confused, I also told the two women who visited me. Then they thought it was my fault because I asked the "wrong questions."
I prayed again, and then had a "warm feeling" that they saw as confirmation by the Holy Ghost. Do you understand how their trick works? In psychology, it's called autosuggestion.
You say that the Bible comes word for word, from A to Z from God. Trained Biblical scholars and Bible historians who have studied ancient scriptures say otherwise. They appreciate and love the Bible, but they also see their flaws and weaknesses.
And so I see the Bible. It is not perfect, but it is useful for learning things.
But no one should make the mistake of taking things out of the textual and historical context. And one should always ask oneanother what can be used from the Bible as for the present day.
 
G

Gerlinde24

Guest
Without faith you cant find God. Without faith you cant be saved.
Thats the thing. Thats why believers are called stupid ore from yesterday. They believe more the word of God, then the "facts" people claim. But my expierience with God are full of facts for me.
I dont know you know Werner Gitt, he is a german Professor for informatic. Gerlinde hab grad gesehen du bist deutsch. Dann ließ doch mal Bücher von Werner Gitt. Da bekommst Du Fakten geliefert.
Nun, wenn Du Gott wirklich suchst, dann wirst Du ihn nur mit Glauben finden. Ohne deinen Verstand abgeben zu müssen.
I would like to respond you into German, but that would be rude to the other users.
I used to work for the NSA. The first thing you learn is to never believe a source alone; but to confirm, relativize or have information confirmed by several other sources as false.
And so I examine everything. Also the Bible.
I don't believe anything anymore because I've been told it's true. And I don't believe in a "Holy Spirit" because JW taught me how to manipulate other people in their faith.
For me, facts count, not fiction!
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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here she insinuates that Dino does not have the Holy Spirit. how is that not contentious? her opinion is that she has the Holy Spirit and Dino does not




here she says the same to myself and others. she is not disagreeing. she is making statements that her opinion is that she is persuing God while those who understand how to study are just worldly. how do you see that as polite?



that is her understanding of a word that she scoffs at because she does not actually understand it but yet she scoffs and mocks those who do. how is that not rude? how is that nice?

she is not wanting to discuss. she accuses and belittles according to her own code of ethics here and frankly, it is apparent she believes she is superior and has not indicated any desire to talk about what she says is basically not spiritual even though everyone agreed we should pray and ask God that the Holy Spirit guide us in our studies

further, she has derailed the thread with her emphasis on how SHE does things.

thread should really get back on track after this hijack
@lenna - you’re wrong in your critical thinking over my posts.

You post my posts but, not what I was responding to which was condescending remarks from you and others yet, it didn’t bother me - I am not angry with any of you- I just simply don’t agree. So what? We can still love each other. :love:

It’s perfectly fine if anyone wants to use hermeneutics. I don’t, I’d rather ask the Holy Spirit for understanding because I know I’ll end up not knowing ANYTHING if I try to understand on my own.

The Holy Spirit is so available to every believer - it’s not good for us to resist, neglect, grieve or quench Him. We’re to rely on the Holy Spirit - even to walk and live this new life IN CHRIST.

Once you’ve tasted honey from the honeycomb, you know what Truth taste like.

I wish you all the best. :love:(y)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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You say that the Bible comes word for word, from A to Z from God. Trained Biblical scholars and Bible historians who have studied ancient scriptures say otherwise.
Once again you can either believe God or believe the scholars. God says that Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him" (Prov 30:5). Therefore Jesus said: It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Mt 4:4) Where was Christ quoting from when He said "it is written"? He was quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3: And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

We have actual documentary evidence that the Bible -- as inspired -- was also preserved through faithful copies, of copies, of copies, from different regions and from various times in history.

The doctrine of divine preservation IS GENERALLY NOT BELIEVED by modern scholars, but it is true nonetheless. One of the best examples is the Isaiah scroll found with the Dead Sea Scrolls (and dating from c 200 BC). Isaiah in the Masoretic Text (the traditional text) as found in the codices from 900 AD is an exact replica of this scroll. So over a period of OVER 1,000 YEARS the text remained unaltered,

The same principle applies to the New Testament, but the major problem is that the most ancient manuscripts are also the MOST CORRUPT. This may sound paradoxical until one sees that heretics began tampering with the New Testament very early on, and the corrupt manuscripts survived because they were cast aside.

Just like any Bible wears down with age, and eventually falls apart, the true manuscripts did not survive through constant use. But once again faithful copies of copies of copies (as well as early versions and translations) ensured that the text remained unchanged. Therefore the majority of manuscripts agree and are represented in the Received Text, but a handful of manuscripts (called the Minority Text) disagree in thousands of particulars because they have been corrupted.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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fair enough :) I have no illusions about all believers all being in agreement all the time.

if we believe in Christ altogether then we are doing it right
Now, those are beautiful kind words! Much love to you lenna! :love:
 
L

lenna

Guest
@lenna - you’re wrong in your critical thinking over my posts.

You post my posts but, not what I was responding to which was condescending remarks from you and others yet, it didn’t bother me - I am not angry with any of you- I just simply don’t agree. So what? We can still love each other. :love:

It’s perfectly fine if anyone wants to use hermeneutics. I don’t, I’d rather ask the Holy Spirit for understanding because I know I’ll end up not knowing ANYTHING if I try to understand on my own.

The Holy Spirit is so available to every believer - it’s not good for us to resist, neglect, grieve or quench Him. We’re to rely on the Holy Spirit - even to walk and live this new life IN CHRIST.

Once you’ve tasted honey from the honeycomb, you know what Truth taste like.

I wish you all the best. :love:(y)
who is resisting the Holy Spirit Lafftur?

who is neglecting the Holy Spirit Lafftur?

who is grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit Lafftur?

who is ignoring the Holy Spirit Lafftur?

since I said in several posts that every believer in Christ is sealed with the Holy Spirit, why are you now trying to indicate I am wondering about it?

The Holy Spirit is so available to every believer
you are actually referring to a second filling, or infilling of the Holy Spirit though and not initial sealing

what makes you think myself and others do not know exactly what it is to be filled and even experience spiritual gifts?

you are posting down to people again but I guess you can't help yourself

you have no idea what I know or don't know about the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the building up of the body of Christ or anything else about me

you should either respond to the actual op or start another thread for what you want to discuss. this has gone on long enough
 
L

lenna

Guest
At this point I think you should concede that Isaiah 41 must be taken into account and that you agree that this girl could not actually tell the future because only God can do that. You could word your concession something like... Scribe is correct and I concede that... Or you could skip that part and just agree that we must include Isaiah 41 in our interpretation. :love:
get back to Scribe, he thinks you need to admit you are in error and that would be a good thing if you did

it would also be a good thing to stop deflecting this thread. start your own about your own interests
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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I used to have a girl friend that was a Tarot Card reader. I know how it works. I have seen people absolutely amazed that she could "read their mail" this is what the demon spirit helped the girl do. There is no doubt that the demon spirit gave her an uncanny way of knowing things. This however would not be the kind of foretelling of future events that God is talking about only he can do.

The Holy Spirit will not say one thing in Isaiah then contradict it in Acts. We have to make them reconcile. How do you reconcile that the ability to declare the future is a Divine attribute in Isaiah and not one in Acts. You can't. You must conclude that the girl lost her ability to say those things that made her creepy, like maybe telling someone where to look to find a lost coin in their house. Or which house their wayward son is shacked up with a prostitute. Things that made her of reputation as a fortune teller that was indeed real but not the Divine attribute of being able to really tell their future. You cannot ignore Isaiah 41 in your interrpretation.
There is absolutely no knowledge you can have about what they see about the future in the spiritual realm from any scriptures we have discussed so far. That is just some guess about the way things might be in the spiritual realm on your part.
At this point I think you should concede that Isaiah 41 must be taken into account and that you agree that this girl could not actually tell the future because only God can do that. You could word your concession something like... Scribe is correct and I concede that... Or you could skip that part and just agree that we must include Isaiah 41 in our interpretation. :love:
No Scribe, her power was from a spirit of divination. I never said it was Divine.

And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
Acts 16:16 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 16:16&version=KJV
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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who is resisting the Holy Spirit Lafftur?

who is neglecting the Holy Spirit Lafftur?

who is grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit Lafftur?

who is ignoring the Holy Spirit Lafftur?

since I said in several posts that every believer in Christ is sealed with the Holy Spirit, why are you now trying to indicate I am wondering about it?



you are actually referring to a second filling, or infilling of the Holy Spirit though and not initial sealing

what makes you think myself and others do not know exactly what it is to be filled and even experience spiritual gifts?

you are posting down to people again but I guess you can't help yourself

you have no idea what I know or don't know about the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the building up of the body of Christ or anything else about me

you should either respond to the actual op or start another thread for what you want to discuss. this has gone on long enough

lenna, you’re being too sensitive and defensive. People can post what they think or believe.

Why consistently attack my posts as if they are attacking you. I’m not attacking you, I’m simply posting what I think - nothing wrong with that. :love:(y)