Not By Works

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Scribe

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dcontroversal said:
And he did not even quote the Roman road, 1 scripture or religiously hoop jump like a poodle at the Westminister Dog Show (as most religions require)......

LORD....remember me when you come into your kingdom!
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However, he did show evidence of repentance. Repentance toward God and Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Requirements for salvation.
 
CherieR

CherieR

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May 6, 2017
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#148,403
dcontroversal said:
And he did not even quote the Roman road, 1 scripture or religiously hoop jump like a poodle at the Westminister Dog Show (as most religions require)......

LORD....remember me when you come into your kingdom!
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Thank you @dcontroversal. There is a sweet simplicity in salvation. No need for jumping through ambiguous hoops
( or rules/procedures) and not being sure if maybe you could have missed one somewhere.
 
S

Scribe

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BillG said:
What was that repentance, if you don't mind me asking.
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When he said "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds..." it shows an acknowledgment of being wrong, a repentance and then when he said remember me when you come into your kingdom he shows a faith that Jesus is the ONE that would bring the Kingdom they all had heard of in the scriptures. Repentance and Faith, Both are seen in his confession.

And this is what Paul preached everywhere...

20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Guojing

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dcontroversal said:
No....they were not and it does not matter how many times you try to skew the truth into two different gospels, it will not change the facts on the ground that there has always BEEN ONE GOSPEL......

Therefore we conclude that ABRAHAM WAS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEED/WORKS of the law!

Get that through your head....JEWS AND GENTILES ARE SAVED BY FAITH AND FAITH ALONE!
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So what was Jesus saying in Luke 10:28 to the Jewish lawyer? Did he meant what he said?
 
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Guojing

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Scribe said:
Abraham's Faith is used as an example. Many things in Abraham's story demonstrates his faith, before the Law. I get the intent of Romans 4 as well as all of Romans context. Baptism is an act of faith. It is not a work of the Law and when one tries to use Pauls argument about the works of the law in a context that has nothing to do with the works of the Law and call it a work they have left the field of Pauls reasoning and entered their own logic that was not intended by Paul. People do it all the time with the word works and they make no sense except to themselves.
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So you do agree water baptism is a work right?

You are just trying to distinguish between works of the Law and works of Faith. The latter saves, while the former do not.

Am I correct in this interpretation?
 
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Guojing

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Skovand said:
I am saying the thief was forgiven of his sins. No the thief did not go to heaven or to the restored heaven or earth. He went to Abraham’s bosom. The grave.

We are all resurrected, living and dead, at one time. Not individually. But that’s beyond what I’m talking about right now.

The thief was brought up as an example of a Christian saved without baptism. That’s not what happened right there. The man was not a Christian, he was a forgiven jew just like then paralyzed man. Christianity did not start until Christ defeated death and ascended to the father.
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Your view is that Christianity started in Acts 2?
 
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EleventhHour

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#148,414
dcontroversal said:
And he did not even quote the Roman road, 1 scripture or religiously hoop jump like a poodle at the Westminister Dog Show (as most religions require)......

LORD....remember me when you come into your kingdom!
Click to expand...
"The Roman Road" .. had to look that one up. ;)

No, He surely did not.
 
Skovand

Skovand

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#148,416
dcontroversal said:
And he did not even quote the Roman road, 1 scripture or religiously hoop jump like a poodle at the Westminister Dog Show (as most religions require)......

LORD....remember me when you come into your kingdom!
Click to expand...
Actually the thief did several things.

1. He choose to believe in the gospels he heard preached. That’s an action. To listen to something and place trust in it being real
Is an action.

2. He confessed that Jesus was Lord when he recognized that Jesus was coming in glory in his kingdom.

3. He repented. He turned his mind from sin to goodness. He accepted his punishment for
The crimes he committed.

Then Jesus forgave the man of his sins just like he did the paralyzed man.


Matthew 9
New American Standard Bible


A Paralytic Healed
9 Getting into a boat, Jesus crossed over the seaand came to His own city.
2 And they brought to Him a (C)paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, “Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.”3 And some of the scribes said to themselves, “This fellow blasphemes.” 4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, “Why are you thinking evil in your hearts? 5 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, and walk’? 6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He *said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.” 7 And he got up and went home. 8 But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.
 
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Guojing

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mailmandan said:
So in John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. *Nothing there about water baptism or law keeping.*

This is where your doctrine goes off the rails. Believe + works for salvation = theology fail.

Regardless of your argument on the content of what was believed in regards to Christ before and after the cross, salvation is not obtained by baptism, law keeping, or works in general before or after the cross.
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Out of curiosity, would you consider yourself a covenant theologist, in the way you interpret the Bible?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Skovand said:
Actually the thief did several things.

1. He choose to believe in the gospels he heard preached. That’s an action. To listen to something and place trust in it being real
Is an action.

2. He confessed that Jesus was Lord when he recognized that Jesus was coming in glory in his kingdom.

3. He repented. He turned his mind from sin to goodness. He accepted his punishment for
The crimes he committed.

Then Jesus forgave the man of his sins just like he did the paralyzed man.


Matthew 9
New American Standard Bible


A Paralytic Healed
9 Getting into a boat, Jesus crossed over the seaand came to His own city.
2 And they brought to Him a (C)paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, “Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.”3 And some of the scribes said to themselves, “This fellow blasphemes.” 4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, “Why are you thinking evil in your hearts? 5 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, and walk’? 6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He *said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.” 7 And he got up and went home. 8 But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.
Click to expand...
Hahahahahhhahahahah....the gospels he heard preached....man you have a lot to learn and start with the words honest assessment and then...
a. Grasp that NO GOSPELS HAD BEEN WRITTEN yet!
 
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