Calvinism and Context?

In steps Elihu who declares that he is speaking for God and holds up God's majesty and Job's lowliness as grounds for God not answering Job and Elihu accuses Job of sinning.

Not confused at all, it is only the one who perseveres until the end who is saved.



How do “you” do that?

In steps Elihu who declares that he is speaking for God and holds up God's majesty and Job's lowliness as grounds for God not answering Job and Elihu accuses Job of sinning.

actually Elihu declares that he is speaking for Job before God, like a mediator, intervening, one made just like Job, out of clay, who seeks to Job's good, to justify Job.

Very interesting indeed. Evidently God does not admonish Job's lawyer at the conclusion of the case. I suppose he was working well within the rules of the court! And as far as I can tell he was working pro bono publico.

So the other peeps were created but never given the opportunity to receive God’s grace, hence they were created for wrath and destruction?

It seems to me you are being evasive, I am speaking about the non-elect and how are they held accountable for a choice they did not have?

They had a choice, and they choose not to seek God, Psalms 53:2-3.

Your post reminds me of a post I made quite awhile ago (where there's another verse using this "REJECT [G114]" word):

[quoting old post]


Luke 7:29-30 - "29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected [G114] the counsel [G1012 - boulēn] of God against [as to / unto] themselves, being not baptized [having not been baptized] of him."

--G1012 - boulēn - used also in Ephesians 1:11, the verse Calvinists use to say "no one can reject/resist" THIS, God's decreed [determined-plan] will [G1012]... yet Luke 7:30 clearly says the Pharisees and lawyers "rejected the boulēn G1012 of God..." (which, for that time then in existence, the decreed-will of God was: "the baptism of John").

The point being, they did indeed "reject the boulēn G1012 of God". Something that Calvinists say is impossible.


From Bible Hub:

Definition: counsel, deliberate wisdom, decree.

HELPS Word-studies

1012 boulḗ – properly, a resolved plan, used particularly of the immutable aspect of God's plan – purposefully arranging all physical circumstances, which guarantees every scene of life works to His eternal purpose.

This level of God's plan (1012 /boulḗ) demonstrates He is the Lord of history, i.e. always in charge!

[1012 (boulḗ) is more than God's immutable plan of physical circumstances. It always also includes the Lord's purpose in them – and hence arranging all the physical scenes of history before creation (Ps 139:16; Jn 1:3).]


[and... quoting]

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 1014 boúlomai – to plan with full resolve (determination). See 1012 (boulē).

1014 /boúlomai ("resolutely plan") is a strong term that underlines the predetermined (and determined) intention driving the planning (wishing, resolving). In contrast, 2309 (thélō) focuses on the desire ("wishfulness") behind making an offer (cf. TDNT, 1, 629).

[While God's "thelō-offers" can be rejected (see 2309 /thélō), His 1014 /boúlomai ("planning") always works out His purpose, especially in conjunction with presetting the physical scenes of history.]

[end quoting from BibleHub]


They clearly "rejected the boulēn G1012 of God," according to that text.

One might think to answer, well they are just doing what comes naturally (to natural man), but that is to miss the point. The point is, Calvinists say that "no one can reject/resist His 'boule / boulen [G1012]' will (that is to say, His 'decreed' will)." But Luke 7:30 says these clearly did so.

And I agree with those saying that "Calvinism" and "Arminianism" are NOT the only options.

[end quoting old post]

Speaking of Job, he and his friends went through many many chapters making assumptions about the character of God, presuming to know His will and so on and so forth.

Of course all of this didn't amount to a hill of beans. God did not agree with any of them and He certainly did not offer any explanations or excuses. God's response was in part was I know what I'm doing......don't even bother asking.

You may or may not get the connection but that's one of the reasons I tend toward the
election-foreordination-predestination line of thinking.

Those who do not seek God are blaming Him right now. And they shall continue to blame Him when they are in hell for eternity.

God, by his foreknowledge, Psalms 53:2-3, saw that none would seek him, no, not one. Out of those that would not seek him, is the group that he choose a portion off before the foundation of the world and predestined them to be adopted as his children by Jesus Christ. The children did not choose God, but he choose them. Jesus paid the adoption price on the cross for those that God choose, and will complete the adoption process, when he comes back at the last day to gather his elect, and takes them home. We use this same adoption process in our society today.

Yes, our worldly adoption principle is a good metaphor for election. I am glad you brought it up.

It is the parents to choose the baby, it is never the baby that chooses the parents.
A helpless baby who does not see cannot hear does not perceive cannot possibly make any choices on its behalf. And in both cases the parents are not compelled in any way to do anything at all.

Earthly parents may choose a baby for reasons other than mercy and pity, yes. But the Bible is clear that we were chosen ONLY because of mercy and pity (as was the nation Israel). Now that we understand our adoption we are to order our lives worthily, as good sons who love their Father and demonstrate it in their lives.

On a similar note, God loves the unsaved. There is no question about that. And the parables of Jesus amplify this principle. But let us understand that the TYPE of love of God extends to the unsaved is ONLY pity and mercy. On wretched vessels that have no worth whatsoever. Unfortunately for the unbeliever Gods love does have a limit and that limit is met eventually.

Contrarily, Gods love for His family members is on a different level. It is infinite, it is the love of a Father toward His sons, it will never end.

Like the rest, we were by nature objects [children] of wrath. Ephesians 2:3

Yet to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God- John 1:12

The Lord has willed it. Scripture says that it is not the Lord's will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2nd Peter 3:

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4-6

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

No God did not create them for destruction, because God gave them a free will to choose out their changes in life, They choose not to seek God, and instead choose destruction, Psalms 53:2-3. You, fasly, accuse people of limiting God, but you are the one that is limiting God, by saying that God wants to eternally save all mankind, but he can't, because some of mankind "stay his hand" (do not accept him). That theory will not harmonize with Dan 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can "stay his hand", or say unto him, What doest thou?

You’re literally the one saying God can’t do everything yet you state I’m limiting God. I’m not limiting God or His saving grace whatsoever. You couldn’t be more incorrect regarding my heart as it pertains to God.

As far as Daniel 4:35, start living on this side of the cross and Resurrection. For God so loved the world that He affords everyone the opportunity to receive His grace. People simply need to place their faith in Jesus Christ.