When are we saved ?

No, because I still say God chose US before the world was made.

The fact remains and cannot be refuted that the direct object of the verb "chose" is US. God chose us before the world was created.

CHOSEN IN HIM is in reference to the verb, the act of choosing, NOT to our spatial existence. This completely destroys the argument against pre temporal election that argues it cannot be true because we were not in Christ before we were saved. The phrase "in Christ" is not in reference to us AT ALL. But it is in reference to God's active choice.

I don't believe God chosen rocks or cats ?

God chose US before the world was made.

The fact remains and cannot be refuted that the direct object of the verb "chose" is US. God chose us before the world was created.

CHOSEN IN HIM is in reference to the verb, the act of choosing, NOT to our spatial existence. This completely destroys the argument against pre temporal election that argues it cannot be true because we were not in Christ before we were saved. The phrase "in Christ" is not in reference to us AT ALL. But it is in reference to God's active choice.

And Eph 2.11-12 ? how does that tie in ?

God chose US before the world was made.

The fact remains and cannot be refuted that the direct object of the verb "chose" is US. God chose us before the world was created.

IN HIM is in reference to the verb, (the act of choosing) NOT to our spatial existence. This completely destroys the argument against pre temporal election that argues it cannot be true because we were not in Christ before we were saved. The phrase "in Christ" is not in reference to us AT ALL. But it is in reference to God's active choice.

We were chosen before time. We were saved in time.

How long are you going to fight and wrestle against the clear fact that Paul said that God chose us before the foundation of the world. The only argument you had to stand on, the fact that we weren't in Him before we were saved has been refuted because the phrase "in HIm" has been clearly demonstrated to not be saying any such thing. So you have God acting before the foundation of the world, the act is the act of choosing, the direct object of the act is US, God chose us before the foundation of the world. How much clearer could Paul get?

So you mean he chose Billy, Sally, Bob, Melissa, doug ..not Tommy, not scot , not Rosie...ect ?

Ah I see . chosen individually out side of Christ and awoken in time to be put back in Christ after being lost in the fall ect . This is doctrines of demons.

Did He save Billy, Sally, Bob, Melissa, Doug, but not Tommy, not Scot, not Rosie?

Did God chose people before the foundation of the world that would never be saved?

Not according to the bible no. Nor did God choose individuals to be saved either.

Not according to the bible no. Nor did God choose individuals to be saved either.

He did choose people to be holy and without blame before Him in love.

And in addition, It has already been demonstrated CLEARLY that the phrase "in Him" has nothing to do with our spatial existence or with us at all. "in Christ" is in reference to the VERB, not the object. See 2 Timothy 1:9 where a similar construction is used.

so the only argument you had has been rebutted. You're just fighting against and wrestling with scriptures.

In 2 Timothy 1:9, what does the phrase "in Christ Jesus" mean and what is it in reference to?

I've already addressed 2tim 1.9 twice . ?

The English is perfectly fine as I've posted .

The English that clears up the Greek is found in 2 Timothy 1:9 There, we are told that “before the world began” (as Eph. 1:4), God gave us certain things; but these things were only “given us IN CHRIST JESUS” and, therefore, to get them, you had to get “in” Him! 2. Observe the close similarity between the wording of 2 Timothy 1:9–10 and Ephesians. 1:4–5. The meaning, then, is clear. “Before the foundation of the world,” God decreed that He would choose no one in this age to become “holy and without blame” unless they were “in Christ.” Jesus Christ was to be the medium through which all blessings would be dispensed (vs. 10), and we can only be “accepted in the beloved” (vs. 6). You were not “in the beloved” before Genesis 1:1, nor was anyone else. You were not “in Christ” before Genesis 1:1, nor was anyone else. Christ had no “Body” until Acts 2 into which you could enter (John 17:23); therefore, the entire system of Calvinism—where it deals with election—is a nullity. Predestination (vs. 5) always follows FOREKNOWLEDGE (Rom. 8:29), and election always follows FOREKNOWLEDGE (1 Pet. 1:2).
( From an earlier post .)

You have not stated what "given to us in Christ Jesus before the world began" means.

I've answered a number of your questions numerous times, over and over again. So please show the same courtesy and answer this question for me.

The English that clears up the Greek is found in 2 Timothy 1:9 There, we are told that “before the world began” (as Eph. 1:4), God gave us certain things; but these things were only “given us IN CHRIST JESUS” and, therefore, to get them, you had to get “in” Him! 2. Observe the close similarity between the wording of 2 Timothy 1:9–10 and Ephesians. 1:4–5. The meaning, then, is clear. “Before the foundation of the world,” God decreed that He would choose no one in this age to become “holy and without blame” unless they were “in Christ.” Jesus Christ was to be the medium through which all blessings would be dispensed (vs. 10), and we can only be “accepted in the beloved” (vs. 6). You were not “in the beloved” before Genesis 1:1, nor was anyone else. You were not “in Christ” before Genesis 1:1, nor was anyone else. Christ had no “Body” until Acts 2 into which you could enter (John 17:23); therefore, the entire system of Calvinism—where it deals with election—is a nullity. Predestination (vs. 5) always follows FOREKNOWLEDGE (Rom. 8:29), and election always follows FOREKNOWLEDGE (1 Pet. 1:2).
( From an earlier post .)

In the bolded part of your quote above, you completely refuted your own argument

If God can give us things in Christ before we are in Christ, it follows that He can also choose us in Christ before we are in Christ. You pulled to rug out from under your own feet.

In the bolded part of your quote above, you completely refuted your own argument

If God can give us things in Christ before we are in Christ, it follows that He can also choose us in Christ before we are in Christ. You pulled to rug out from under your own feet.