Shining Light on 1 Corinthians Chapter 15

Yes they rejected the counsel of God . They did not believe.

I'm fallible of course . We all are . I do struggle when it comes to the topic of baptism being necessary for salvation , as its an area I have had to defend in my ministry work with the cults and Catholics/ church of christ ect . So my heart is for those that are caught up in this teaching and those that suffer the consequences of this false teaching ( my believe on this ) Fair point in that yes I could have said things more graciously.

I think most mainline protestant churches understand the symbolism and the "act of faith" behind water baptism. We know that it is a public confession of an inward reality. We know that the water has no magical properties and that we are saved BEFORE we get wet. It is because we believe we are saved and we are declaring it openly, "I believe that Jesus Died for me, was buried, and rose from the dead, and that because of that I am forgiven, saved, and I am making a commitment to walk in newness of life" That part about Newness of life is that part that helps people in this spiritual war we are all in. Baptism is God's plan not Johns, or the apostles. We go along with it and we receive the benefits from it which are related to our having taken a tangible visible public step of faith. This should not be delayed as it so often is today. Many times it is delayed so long it really does seem to be a "check list" people feel they need to get completed "just in case" it really matters.

We know that the bread and wine of communion has no magical properties but we observe it as a reminder for ourselves, this act of faith teaches us the necessity of self examination on a regular basis.

Prayer is another often neglected "act of faith". We claim the promises of God and we declare to others how He is going to meet our needs etc, but many still have the age old "spirit is willing, but flesh is weak" syndrome when it comes to actually spending an hour in a garden seeking the face of God. Pray is God's method and we have not because we ask not or ask in doubt.
We should preach baptism and invite people to it as soon as they "get saved"
We should pray for everything, and make time everyday to get alone with God for an hour. Our flesh may not like it, our doctrinal heresy hunter friends may try to tell us we don't have to pray for an hour to be saved, but Prayer is God's plan and we should just do it whether we understand why it is necessary or not. Same with Baptism and the Lords Supper. Just do it. God knows why, we should just follow and discover it by obedience.

I fully believe in water BAPTISM, and I was baptized, however it's not a salvation issue, yes Christian's should be baptized, yes it should be taught and followed.

Belief and Confession, that's all ya need for salvation!

Roman's 10:9-10KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are not talking to "most mainline protestant churches" ...

we are speaking to people who push water baptism as a requirement for salvation.

My desire to help alleviate this error is not me saying water baptism is meaningless, nor am
I teaching others to be disobedient. That is a favorite false narrative dishonest people take up.

For the record, I do not count you among them

No slander, you have taught that when people die they go to (THE GRAVE) this is in denial of a literal (Hell) for the wicked unsaved presently, just as 7th day Adventist and JW's teach, do you believe in a literal (Hell) I have asked without answer several times?

You teach Baptism is essential to enter the Kingdom, this is false.

Belief and Confession, that's all ya need for salvation!

Roman's 10:9-10KJV
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

To be baptised by John was to recognise that they were serious about their repentance and that Jesus is the only proper basis for the remission of sins .

My lack of immediate response to your earlier posts has been a process of understanding where you are coming from . Which is not immediately apparent. As it takes time to assimilate each person's position .

I understand.

It is all due to the need in modern culture to identify an exact moment when one is "born again" and separate that from water baptism. Why we feel the need to argue it doctrinally is because of false teachings that have been promoted throughout church history.
The presentation of the Gospel does not require this however. It does not put an emphasis on identifying the moment one is born again or "regenerated." The Scripture emphasized the FACT that we are not the exact moment in the initial process of believing that it occurs. That is why simply praying a prayer from a prayer card for people who come to the altar does not automatically save them. We cannot tell whether they are are repenting or believing, only God knows that.

If we preach the way Peter preached, it may cause some seminary students to question whether we are suggesting that we are not saved unless we complete the church baptismal ceremony.

This is not a question that the first century audience listening to Peter had.

We could say to lost people, "repent of your sins, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who has died for your sins and risen from the dead to offer you forgiveness and eternal life and be baptized today and decide to follow Jesus" and these lost people are not going to feel the need to slice up the doctrinal implications of baptism in water versus the believe and repent part. They are just going to receive it as all part of the GOOD NEWS that there is hope for them.

If the act of baptism in water is WHEN they truly are repenting, and believing, then so be it. It was not the water that saved them but the faith in Christ they had at that moment. Others had that faith and repentance a week before the baptism and that is when they were converted.

We can preach repentance, faith and be baptized and not be guilty of claiming that baptism in water saves us. It is a splitting of hairs invented after the initial birth of preaching the Gospel. I will follow the pattern I read in the bible and include baptism in my altar calls because Peter, Philip, and the tenure of the New Testament does. It is impossible that the New Testament ever excluded baptism when preaching the Gospel. This fine point cannot be over emphasized.

It is not necessary to always explain to people that the water baptism part does not save them. That causes more confusion for people who did not ask that question. This need to make it clear that water baptism does not save us is to me some sort of defending oneself from heresy hunters. It is not necessary and rarely makes any difference.

Just to have the record set straight, I believe that my posting was for another poster. If you felt addressed by it though, all is well. Also, my first posting, where I explain Baptism in 1st Corinthians 15:29, I'm sure you will agree that I did not say it is necessary for salvation. What sometimes happens is that a brother with a particular view is so fixed on his view that he answers me according to what his view is and not what I said. I'm used to this, and take no offense - though I might point it out.

I'm sure if you go back to my first posting (#2), you will not find a statement or allusion to Baptism for salvation.

Go well bro.

In my posting I showed how you change concepts. I say, "KINGDOM" and you answer "SALVATION" (in bold red for you to see - or maybe not). I say something concerning the KINGDOM and you answer something concerning SALVATION. I think, brother, you are very mixed up.

By the way brother, was it not you that quoted at length about "those in the grave" from John 5:28. Now you suddenly call it a JWs doctrine. But YOU taught it - and so does the Bible. The BODY goes to the grave, the SOUL goes to Hades and the SPIRIT goes to God in heaven (Eccl.3:21, 12:7). Just so you don't get more mixed up, note that in Acts Chapter 2, David was still in Hades 50 days after Christ's resurrection, and ten days after His ascension - AND HIS BODY WAS STILL IN THE GRAVE!

But the Pharisees thought they were obeying God better than Christ was, they believed in their dogma. They just believed in their way above the Lord's way. They added so much to scripture they even measured how far they could walk on the Sabbath.

We need to often check our church's doctrines against the doctrines of the Lord. Has anyone added or taken away from what the Lord tells us? I question Easter, for example and am scolded often for saying so. Passover is in scripture, is Easter? The KJV translated the word Passover with the word Easter.

So much to on.....I'll just tackle couple of obvious ones
1..you twisted a lot of scripture to make the verse(s) fit your view
2. The gospel has to be simple .. it is the starting place for those newly born again
3. There is no command to be water baptized
4. Baptism for the dead is heresy, whatever state you are in when you die, that is how it remains.

I can't speak for how demons think, I only know what scripture tells me, but I would bet demons are still trying to win. They are pretty stupid or they wouldn't have rebelled in the first place.

I don't want to get into a long argument but I don't understand why anyone would say that.

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost"
That is a commandment.

Acts 10:48..And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
That is a commandment.

Why do I keep reading people post that there is no commandment to baptize? I can post some others as well but this should be enough.

People seem to always remember vs 19 but never the next verse, vs 20 "teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

Do you actually obey this commandment to teach others to obey everything Jesus commanded the 12, say just in the Book of Matthew?

Do you know he actually commanded them to follow the Law of Moses too? (Matthew 5:19-20)

Since baptize (baptizo) means to fully immerse, are you sure it does not mean in that context to immerse them in the gospel?
Context is everything.

None of the apostles was baptized in water.....except Paul who had his baptism into the Nazarene priesthood before he was called as an apostle. Jesus baptized no one. His baptism was also of the as priest and king of Nazarene priesthood.
Tertulian said it just gets you wet.

I am not against water baptism as the symbol of the old man being dead and buried and the new man come to new life. I was baptized (immersion). It just does not have a place as a commandment. The only thing Jesus said we MUST do is be born again.

Wow! Good call!