Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture allowing the antichrist to, without resistance of any significant power, ascend to his place to declare himself the god in the temple?

2 Thessalonians 2 (ESV)

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Is this preached escapism lulling God's people to passivity and inaction, about the reality of the beast, so that the beast can achieve his place, uncontested by God's people, so they as God's people, may be removed by deception, from all power of resistance, restricting the beast's coming - 2 Thess 2:7 - Please pray about this message of deception, being spread most certainly unknowingly, and being used by wanting the best for God's children. This is inconveniently false doctrine, contrary to God's scriptured will. The first resurrected dead, being raptured with those believers alive, comes out of the great tribulation, and are those that died for their testimony in Christ.

Rev 20:5 - The ----first resurrection (happening AFTER the great tribulation)---- is of those who died during the great tribulation, by the hand of the beast:


Revelation 20 (ESV)

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.


1Thess 4:16-17 - During the rapture, at the return of Christ, the first resurrection takes place, of those who died for their testimony of Christ:

1 Thessalonians 4 (ESV)

16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Read Matthew 24, for the consecutive ordered scripture, describing what comes before and after Christ's second coming - as per the Church fathers' explained Post-Tribulation, Pre-Millenium return of Christ, classical Millenialism.

John 16 (ESV)

33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."
 
CS1

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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the teaching of the Pretrib Rapture is not false teaching.
 
B

BenjaminN

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#3
CS1 said:
the teaching of the Pretrib Rapture is not false teaching.
Click to expand...
Do you agree that if the scripture says "first resurrection", it is the "first resurrection"?

Revelation 20 (ESV)

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
 
CS1

CS1

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BenjaminN said:
Do you agree that if the scripture says "the first resurrection", it is the "first resurrection"?

Revelation 20 (ESV)

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them as those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also, I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
Click to expand...
Context is important and Prophecy has a then foretelling and future forth-telling John was speaking of the Roman occupation which did many things and The Lord Jesus also provided prophecy of what is to come.


Let's talk about the first resurrection for money, ok, as a Christian have already passed from Death unto Life in Christ Jesus. I do not have to worry about the mark of the beast. Because I am sealed with the Holy Spirit Eph 1:13


Eph 4:30 says: "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. "

"The day of Redemption " is speaking of that day the Lord comes to of the last day of this present age, the day Christ will return from heaven, raise the dead, hold the final judgment, and perfect his kingdom.

The Bible uses many terms to describe the very same events we must study and draw out what the word says.

"Day of the Lord"
"Day of Redemption "
"The calling up"
The Appearing"

the first resurrection I have a question for all After the rapture of the church those who are here who do not receive the mark will they be saved? IF I never receive it, is it my action of not getting the mark that saved me or my refusal to deny Jesus and take on the mark and worship the image of the beast?
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#5
Jul 23, 2018
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#5
Now get a greek interlinear (or kjv) and see what it really says In rev 20;4

"...neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.""

Nothing at all about any resurrection.
Look it up in the greek.

Factor in our verses.
It truly is a pretrib rapture
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#6
Jul 23, 2018
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""... as per the Church fathers' explained Post-Tribulation, Pre-Millenium return of Christ, classical Millenialism.""

Those believers were looking through a prism of a destroyed and scattered Israel.

1947 reset the prophetic clock.
It was an "uh oh" moment for postribs entire basis.
I believe that is why postribs need replacement theology and a disdain /disenfranchisement of israel..
 
oyster67

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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#7
BenjaminN said:
those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life
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These are the ones that missed the Rapture, but refused to take the Mark. Nothing confusing here.(y)
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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BenjaminN said:
Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture allowing the antichrist to, without resistance of any significant power, ascend to his place to declare himself the god in the temple?

2 Thessalonians 2 (ESV)

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Is this preached escapism lulling God's people to passivity and inaction, about the reality of the beast, so that the beast can achieve his place, uncontested by God's people, so they as God's people, may be removed by deception, from all power of resistance, restricting the beast's coming - 2 Thess 2:7 - Please pray about this message of deception, being spread most certainly unknowingly, and being used by wanting the best for God's children. This is inconveniently false doctrine, contrary to God's scriptured will. The first resurrected dead, being raptured with those believers alive, comes out of the great tribulation, and are those that died for their testimony in Christ.

33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."
Click to expand...
I thought pretrib was taught to scare the pants off the unsaved......provoke them to get some "fire insurance".
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#10
Jul 23, 2018
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#10
GraceAndTruth said:
I thought pretrib was taught to scare the pants off the unsaved......provoke them to get some "fire insurance".
Click to expand...
in mat 25 the 5 foolish missed the rapture and there was no hint of judgement,destruction or a AC chasing believers to behead them.

mat 25 is a vivid depiction of the pretrib rapture.
 
B

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Absolutely said:
Now get a greek interlinear (or kjv) and see what it really says In rev 20;4

"...neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.""

Nothing at all about any resurrection.
Look it up in the greek.

Factor in our verses.
It truly is a pretrib rapture
Click to expand...
Read Revelations 20:4-5, you will find this event, following the great tribulation, is the first resurrection in any translation in verse 5, as stated in the OP.


Revelation 20 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#14
Jul 23, 2018
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#14
BenjaminN said:
Read Revelations 20:4-5, you will find this event, following the great tribulation, is the first resurrection in any translation in verse 5, as stated in the OP.


Revelation 20 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Click to expand...

That verse is differentiating the FIRST RESURRECTION from the "rest of the dead " which are resurrected AFTER THE MIL.

Lets play out your assumption. You assume the first resurrection is ONLY THOSE BEHEADED DURING THE GT.
Then resurrected after the gt.
That is your point ,correct?
(which was accelerated by that bad translation you were promoting...which said 'came back to life')

here is where you need to look.
in 1 thes we have the dead in christ raised. THEY MUST PRECEDE THE LIVING.NOT FOLLOW,BUT PRECEDE.

In rev 14 we see a gathering OF THE LIVING....DURING THE GT.(that alone kills a postrib rapture along with ANY POSSIBILITY of a postrib resurrection)

But your assumption mainly fails because harvest is 4 parts.

The resurrection IS FRAMED in HARVEST,
Jesus is the firstfruits along with those resurrected after Jesus resurrection and see walking in Jerusalem.

That is WHY the first resurrection is 1) Jesus along with those patriarchs 2) the dead in Christ in the pretrib rapture 3) those martyrs resurrected during the gt.

there is no resurrection after the gt.

only the one at the gwtj AFTER the mil (2nd death)
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#16
#16
BenjaminN said:
Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture allowing the antichrist to, without resistance of any significant power, ascend to his place to declare himself the god in the temple?

2 Thessalonians 2 (ESV)

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Is this preached escapism lulling God's people to passivity and inaction, about the reality of the beast, so that the beast can achieve his place, uncontested by God's people, so they as God's people, may be removed by deception, from all power of resistance, restricting the beast's coming - 2 Thess 2:7 - Please pray about this message of deception, being spread most certainly unknowingly, and being used by wanting the best for God's children. This is inconveniently false doctrine, contrary to God's scriptured will. The first resurrected dead, being raptured with those believers alive, comes out of the great tribulation, and are those that died for their testimony in Christ.

Rev 20:5 - The ----first resurrection (happening AFTER the great tribulation)---- is of those who died during the great tribulation, by the hand of the beast:


Revelation 20 (ESV)

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.


1Thess 4:16-17 - During the rapture, at the return of Christ, the first resurrection takes place, of those who died for their testimony of Christ:

1 Thessalonians 4 (ESV)

16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Read Matthew 24, for the consecutive ordered scripture, describing what comes before and after Christ's second coming - as per the Church fathers' explained Post-Tribulation, Pre-Millenium return of Christ, classical Millenialism.

John 16 (ESV)

33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."
Click to expand...
By your own admission You certainly don't know what 2 thess 2:6-7 means, so that should make it easy for you to realize you might be wrong about your accusations of false teaching for those who interpret a pre trib rapture.

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

You label it escapism when I assume you already know that they believe they will not escape persecution but they will escape the WRATH of the Lamb. Which you also believe you will escape. So you are not being kind in your false accusations toward your brothers knowing that they do not believe in escaping tribulation in this life but the GREAT TRIBULATION known also 6 to 9 times in the book of Revelation as the Day of his Wrath. If they believe in escaping the wrath of God and you also believe in escaping the wrath of God then you are dishonest in calling it escapism. You are willfully knowingly maligning and falsely accusing and this means that there is something very dark going on with you.

Stop with the harsh judgments of those that don't have the same interpretation on eschatology as you do. And your "concern" for their souls is misplaced since you have been exposed to be dishonest in you false accusation of escapism. If you want to be concerned for someone's soul be worried about your willingness to falsely accuse your brothers without feeling shame and remorse. Something is not right with you.
 
B

BenjaminN

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#17
Scribe said:
By your own admission You certainly don't know what 2 thess 2:6-7 means, so that should make it easy for you to realize you might be wrong about your accusations of false teaching for those who interpret a pre trib rapture.

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

You label it escapism when I assume you already know that they believe they will not escape persecution but they will escape the WRATH of the Lamb. Which you also believe you will escape. So you are not being kind in your false accusations toward your brothers knowing that they do not believe in escaping tribulation in this life but the GREAT TRIBULATION known also 6 to 9 times in the book of Revelation as the Day of his Wrath. If they believe in escaping the wrath of God and you also believe in escaping the wrath of God then you are dishonest in calling it escapism. You are willfully knowingly maligning and falsely accusing and this means that there is something very dark going on with you.

Stop with the harsh judgments of those that don't have the same interpretation on eschatology as you do. And your "concern" for their souls is misplaced since you have been exposed to be dishonest in you false accusation of escapism. If you want to be concerned for someone's soul be worried about your willingness to falsely accuse your brothers without feeling shame and remorse. Something is not right with you.
Click to expand...
In 1843 Millerism taught worldwide that Christ Yeshua is coming back that very year. When it did not happen believers were devastated and some even lost faith. Then Millerism reached out with another piece of straw to the believers, proclaiming Christ Yeshua's return would be on 22 October 1844, it did not happen, and weak, non-persevering believers worldwide was devastated and left without hope, because of this false teaching. What would you say to believers following your teaching, when the great tribulation starts, and they are all "left behind", as the rapture only happens with the "first resurrection" of the dead, following the great tribulation, and you knew that from scripture beforehand. Christ Yeshua did not warn us of this tribulation beforehand, if it did not have any relevance to our lives, teaching us to keep our faith lamps full of oil, like the virgins in the parable, as we do not know when the false messiah, anti-christ will arise, but we do know Christ Yeshua is coming back seven years after he arises.

The "first resurrection" (of those that died in Christ for their testimony of believing in Christ) happens after the great tribulation, at the return of Christ Yeshua, with the rapture.

Revelation 20 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 4 (KJV)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 
B

BenjaminN

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#18
Oct 7, 2020
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#18
As God's church will be losing all position of might in the world, during the great apostasy in the period of lawlessness, God is "taken out of the way", in position of might in this world, during this great apostasy. The believers are then going through a great tribulation, through which God will guide them divinely. But are warned to have courage, and are given the truth that he who is destined to die by the sword will die by the sword.


2 Thessalonians 2 (KJV)

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

John 8 (KJV)

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#19
#19
BenjaminN said:
In 1843 Millerism taught worldwide that Christ Yeshua is coming back that very year. When it did not happen believers were devastated and some even lost faith. Then Millerism reached out with another piece of straw to the believers, proclaiming Christ Yeshua's return would be on 22 October 1844, it did not happen, and weak, non-persevering believers worldwide was devastated and left without hope, because of this false teaching. What would you say to believers following your teaching, when the great tribulation starts, and they are all "left behind", as the rapture only happens with the "first resurrection" of the dead, following the great tribulation, and you knew that from scripture beforehand. Christ Yeshua did not warn us of this tribulation beforehand, if it did not have any relevance to our lives, teaching us to keep our faith lamps full of oil, like the virgins in the parable, as we do not know when the false messiah, anti-christ will arise, but we do know Christ Yeshua is coming back seven years after he arises.

The "first resurrection" (of those that died in Christ for their testimony of believing in Christ) happens after the great tribulation, at the return of Christ Yeshua, with the rapture.

Revelation 20 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 4 (KJV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Click to expand...
Pre trib view believes they will be saved from the wrath of God. They do not believe they are raptured in order to escape persecution.
They know that we must all be ready to give our lives for Christ and some generations have suffered more than others and there is not promise that we will not see some end time persecution that might be as bad as anything that has happened in the past.

pre trib view is that They are raptured to be kept from the judgments of God poured out on the world. If they are wrong and they are raptured after the tribulation, they will stll experience supernatural protection from the wrath of God so why would they lose faith if they were being divinely protected in miraculous ways. Your logic is faulty. No pre trib view person who is experiencing divine protection from the wrath of God is going to be to worried about being wrong about the timing of the rapture and the tribulation.

So give yourself and your pre trib brothers a break and find something more important to warn people about. Like falsely accusing your brother. That is an abomination right up there with homosexuality. God hates it. HATES IT. warn yourself and your brothers about that sin.
 
S

Scribe

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#20
#20
BenjaminN said:
As God's church will be losing all position of might in the world, during the great apostasy in the period of lawlessness, God is "taken out of the way", in position of might in this world, during this great apostasy. The believers are then going through a great tribulation, through which God will guide them divinely. But are warned to have courage, and are given the truth that he who is destined to die by the sword will die by the sword.


2 Thessalonians 2 (KJV)

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

John 8 (KJV)

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Click to expand...
I don't have 2 Thess 2:6-7 figured out yet but my guess is that Paul had taught them something out of Daniel on this and is reminding them about what he previously taught them. We should be able to study Daniel and pick up on what Paul taught them and figure out the mystery that he was explaining from the book of Daniel. Look for references that might relate to "the mystery of iniquity" the references to the man of sin, son of perdition, that Wicked, and the abomination of desolation, but the mention he that restrains or holds back, taken out of the way could be related to this ...."At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered. I really think the answer is in Daniel. And Paul might have explained this to them. If you remember it was Michael that had to deal with the Prince of Persia in order for Gabriel to get to Daniel.
I don't understand it but there might be something related to "Holding back or restraining" that Michael will take care of when the mystery of iniquity is full, when "God has decided ENOUGH" or the cup of the sin of the gentiles is full. And Michael might already have specific orders to release something that allows THAT WICKED to go forth and have his moment of un restrained reign.

This is obviously all about a teaching from Daniel that he had previously explained to them. Unfortunately we were not there to hear it. However, God planned it this way. God wants us to trust the Holy Spirit to illuminate us as we study Daniel and get the same revelation that Paul had taught them. This is the challenge. Only a few will try, and only a few (in comparison to the masses) will have the condition of heart to understand.

4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed,

I think I am on the right trail. I just have to give it more attention. I think what I have presented is very close to the explanation.
 
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