Who will be taken and who will be left behind?

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D

DWR

Guest
#1
#1
I have a couple of questions for those who believe in a pre-trib "rapture of the church".

Who are "the church"? All the saved? Those who a part of a local assembly? Those who are baptized?

Who will be taken? All the saved? Only those who are faithful? Only those who believe in the pre-trib "rapture of the church"?

Who will be left behind?

If you would, please provide Scripture with your answer.
 
bud62

bud62

Banned
#2
Jan 4, 2020
1,506
266
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washburn Tn
#2
DWR said:
I have a couple of questions for those who believe in a pre-trib "rapture of the church".

Who are "the church"? All the saved? Those who a part of a local assembly? Those who are baptized?

Who will be taken? All the saved? Only those who are faithful? Only those who believe in the pre-trib "rapture of the church"?

Who will be left behind?

If you would, please provide Scripture with your answer.
Click to expand...
THE WICKED IS THE ONES THAT IS TAKEN, AND LEFT DEAD ON THE GROUND FOR THE GREAT FEAST FOR THE BIRDS. And the BIBLE makes it very clear, JESUS TELLS US THAT the WICKED is gathered FIRST AND THAT LEAVES ONLY THE SAVED, GOD BLESS AS AS GOD SEES GOOD, FOR YOU ALL
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#3
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#3
DWR said:
I have a couple of questions for those who believe in a pre-trib "rapture of the church".

Who are "the church"? All the saved? Those who a part of a local assembly? Those who are baptized?

Who will be taken? All the saved? Only those who are faithful? Only those who believe in the pre-trib "rapture of the church"?

Who will be left behind?

If you would, please provide Scripture with your answer.
Click to expand...
1 cor 15, the entire chapter will provide the answer you are looking

The first half tells you the sufficient condition to be raptured, vs 1-4

The second half tells you what will happen during the rapture
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#4
Jul 18, 2017
24,426
12,911
113
#4
DWR said:
Who are "the church"? All the saved?
Click to expand...
The Church is the Body of Christ and consists of all those who have been saved by grace and washed in the blood of the Lamb. Since they are all in one Body, they will all be taken up at the Rapture at the same time. However, the ones who are watching for the the Blessed Hope of Christ coming for the saints, will also be the ones who will be prepared to go at any moment. And they will be living accordingly.

This passage in Matthew 24 must be interpreted properly:
37 But as the days of Noe [Noah] were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Even though it says in verse 39 that the Flood "took them all away" (meaning those who were not within the Ark), the Ark itself is a type of Christ. Those are in Christ are not subject to the wrath of God, therefore they will be taken out of the way before judgments come upon the earth. Therefore the ones who are "taken" in verses 40 and 41 are the saints of God (just like Noah). This also corresponds to the rescue of Lot and his family from Sodom just before divine judgments were poured out on Sodom and Gomorrah. And even before the Flood Enoch was taken by God (to prefigure the Rapture): And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. (Gen 5:24)

It is significant to note that even though the family members of Noah and Lot are not called righteous, it was purely because Noah and Lot were deemed righteous that their families were saved from wrath. Today, those who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ are deemed righteous by God. Which also means that God expects righteousness from them.
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#5
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
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#5
Jesus said in Matthew 7:14 only a few will be saved. The Apostle Paul said in Romans 11, only a Remnant will be saved.
 
bud62

bud62

Banned
#6
Jan 4, 2020
1,506
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washburn Tn
#6
Guojing said:
1 cor 15, the entire chapter will provide the answer you are looking

The first half tells you the sufficient condition to be raptured, vs 1-4

The second half tells you what will happen during the rapture
Click to expand...
Guojing said:
1 cor 15, the entire chapter will provide the answer you are looking

The first half tells you the sufficient condition to be raptured, vs 1-4

The second half tells you what will happen during the rapture
Click to expand...
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
JESUS TELLS US THAT THE WICKED IS GATHERED FIRST THIS DOSE AWAY WITH THE RAPTURE, AND TELLS US THAT THE WICKED IS THE ONES THAT IS TAKEN, WHICH MEANS THAT THEIR LIFES WAS TAKEN AND THEY ARE LEFT ON THE GROUND FOR THE BIRDS TO EAT JUST LIKE THE BIBLE TELLS US WILL HAPPEN
 
D

DWR

Guest
#7
#7
Nehemiah6 said:
The Church is the Body of Christ and consists of all those who have been saved by grace and washed in the blood of the Lamb. Since they are all in one Body, they will all be taken up at the Rapture at the same time. However, the ones who are watching for the the Blessed Hope of Christ coming for the saints, will also be the ones who will be prepared to go at any moment. And they will be living accordingly.

This passage in Matthew 24 must be interpreted properly:
37 But as the days of Noe [Noah] were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Even though it says in verse 39 that the Flood "took them all away" (meaning those who were not within the Ark), the Ark itself is a type of Christ. Those are in Christ are not subject to the wrath of God, therefore they will be taken out of the way before judgments come upon the earth. Therefore the ones who are "taken" in verses 40 and 41 are the saints of God (just like Noah). This also corresponds to the rescue of Lot and his family from Sodom just before divine judgments were poured out on Sodom and Gomorrah. And even before the Flood Enoch was taken by God (to prefigure the Rapture): And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. (Gen 5:24)

It is significant to note that even though the family members of Noah and Lot are not called righteous, it was purely because Noah and Lot were deemed righteous that their families were saved from wrath. Today, those who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ are deemed righteous by God. Which also means that God expects righteousness from them.
Click to expand...
Well I know a few that say they are watching for the blessed hope and are living like the devil
.
I also know some, including myself, that do not believe in the pre-trib "rapture of the church" that are doing our best to live for our Lord and warn everyone they should prepare for the coming time of tribulation that Jesus says will come.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#8
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#8
DWR said:
Well I know a few that say they are watching for the blessed hope and are living like the devil
.
I also know some, including myself, that do not believe in the pre-trib "rapture of the church" that are doing our best to live for our Lord and warn everyone they should prepare for the coming time of tribulation that Jesus says will come.
Click to expand...
Well don't take the Mark of the beast as you will lose your salvation .
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#9
Aug 28, 2012
19,213
2,548
113
#9
bud62 said:
THE WICKED IS THE ONES THAT IS TAKEN, AND LEFT DEAD ON THE GROUND FOR THE GREAT FEAST FOR THE BIRDS. And the BIBLE makes it very clear, JESUS TELLS US THAT the WICKED is gathered FIRST AND THAT LEAVES ONLY THE SAVED, GOD BLESS AS AS GOD SEES GOOD, FOR YOU ALL
Click to expand...
I have never heard of this point of view, the wicked are taken? Have you read revelation? It says that the dead in Christ are first and then those of us who remain will meet him in air if you want to know what happens to the wicked you only need to look at the tribulation
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#10
Aug 28, 2012
19,213
2,548
113
#10
DWR said:
Well I know a few that say they are watching for the blessed hope and are living like the devil
.
I also know some, including myself, that do not believe in the pre-trib "rapture of the church" that are doing our best to live for our Lord and warn everyone they should prepare for the coming time of tribulation that Jesus says will come.
Click to expand...
Sadly yes there are those who are like this they watch and wait but in their waiting live in sin, there rae also those who are watching and waiting but fail to live for Christ because they think they will be raptured soon. Others still constantly seek any kind of sign and evidence watching and listening to all kinds of so called prophets falling under their deception over and over again they are so focused on the event themselves they are not longer focused on Christ.

Regardless of what timing of the rapture one prescribes to one thing is for sure and that is that chaos and destruction is very close at hand anyone who hopes for the rapture for the wrong reason will be left behind and unprepared for what is to come because they didn't prepare their hearts and even if the pretrib rapture is wrong many who did not listen to his vpoice to seek him and prepare our hearts will be under heavy tribulation

It is vital no matter what we think will happen or not happen that we develop our love and relationship with him first and foremost if the rapture is pretrib this will be the children who will be taken if it is wrong these will be the ones who will survive the tribulation and not take the mark
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#11
Jul 3, 2015
55,876
26,037
113
#11
DWR said:
Who are "the church"? All the saved? Those who a part of a local assembly? Those who are baptized?
Click to expand...
Mentioned more than 100 times in the New Testament, the word "church"
is translated from the Greek term ekklesia, used in the New Testament
to identify the community of believers in Jesus Christ. It literally means
"an assembly" and "to call out" or "the called out ones."

Jesus Christ was the first to mention the word "church," in Matthew 16:18.

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi,
He questioned His disciples: “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah;
and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this
was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father
in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock
I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail
against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven.
Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and
whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

The rock in this case is not Peter, but his confession of faith.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#12
#12
Those who's heart are completely His. Those that walk in repentance. Those that are departing from iniquity. Those that love righteousness and hate iniquity. Those that are walking in the light, who's eye is single. Those who are abiding in the Vine and bearing fruit. Those that LOOK for his appearing. Those that love the light and come to the light that their deeds may be exposed and that they may be transformed from glory to glory. Those that love as he loves. Those that walk in holiness. Those that have not lost their saltiness, and those who took extra oil to be found ready when he appears. Those that deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and live soberly righteously and godly in the present world. Those that are without spot and wrinkle, watching and waiting.
 
bud62

bud62

Banned
#13
Jan 4, 2020
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washburn Tn
#13
Blain said:
I have never heard of this point of view, the wicked are taken? Have you read revelation? It says that the dead in Christ are first and then those of us who remain will meet him in air if you want to know what happens to the wicked you only need to look at the tribulation
Click to expand...
THE BIBLE tells US that THE LORD will SLAY THE WICKED BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING, JESUS tells US THAT THE TARES ARE GETHER FIRST, the tares are the LOST
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. THE BIBLE DOSE NOT CONDERDICT IT'S SELF,
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#14
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#14
bud62 said:
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
JESUS TELLS US THAT THE WICKED IS GATHERED FIRST THIS DOSE AWAY WITH THE RAPTURE, AND TELLS US THAT THE WICKED IS THE ONES THAT IS TAKEN, WHICH MEANS THAT THEIR LIFES WAS TAKEN AND THEY ARE LEFT ON THE GROUND FOR THE BIRDS TO EAT JUST LIKE THE BIBLE TELLS US WILL HAPPEN
Click to expand...
Jesus did not reveal the rapture before he saved Paul, it was a mystery that first revealed thru the apostle Paul.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#15
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#15
DWR said:
I have a couple of questions for those who believe in a pre-trib "rapture of the church".

Who are "the church"? All the saved? Those who a part of a local assembly? Those who are baptized?

Who will be taken? All the saved? Only those who are faithful? Only those who believe in the pre-trib "rapture of the church"?

Who will be left behind?

If you would, please provide Scripture with your answer.
Click to expand...
1. The church are all those who are born again by God's purpose and will Because per Eph 1:11....11 In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will,

2. All the saved will be taken up John 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

3. Those "left behind" are left behind. They have been judged already. John 3:18
 
bud62

bud62

Banned
#17
Jan 4, 2020
1,506
266
83
66
washburn Tn
#17
DWR said:
Well I know a few that say they are watching for the blessed hope and are living like the devil
.
I also know some, including myself, that do not believe in the pre-trib "rapture of the church" that are doing our best to live for our Lord and warn everyone they should prepare for the coming time of tribulation that Jesus says will come.
Click to expand...

JESUS SAYS THAT THE WICKED WILL BE GATHERED FIRST, AND JESUS IS NO LIAR, that means that there will not be NO rapture, YESUAH WILL DESTROY THE WICK BY THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING , THEN THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL GO UP AND MEAT IN THE AIR, THEN THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN WILL GO UP AND MEAT HIM IN THE AIR, THEY WILL GO TO HEAVEN FOR A 1000 YEAR JUDGEMENT FOR THE LOST, AND THIS LEAVES NO ONE ON EARTH ALIVE, THIS IS THE 1000 YEARS THAT Satan IS LOCK UP AND CAN'T DECIEVE NO ONE BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE ON EARTH ALIVE, After the 1000 myears judgement, for the wicked, then the NEW Jerusalem will come down from GOD out of HEAVEN, and set down on earth, THE WICKED WILL BE RESURRECTED, THEY COME UP ON THE EARTH AND surround the city, AND FIRE COMES DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN AND devoured them.
REVELATION 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
THE BIBLE MAKES IT PLAIN, GOD bless as GOD sees GOOD FOR YOU ALL
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#18
#18
DWR said:
Well I know a few that say they are watching for the blessed hope and are living like the devil
.
I also know some, including myself, that do not believe in the pre-trib "rapture of the church" that are doing our best to live for our Lord and warn everyone they should prepare for the coming time of tribulation that Jesus says will come.
Click to expand...
Even if you don't believe in a "pre-wrath" rapture of the church you should still be looking for the coming of the Lord not the coming of the tribulation. The scriptures are abundant that tell us to be looking for his appearing, not looking for the antichrist, not looking for the tribulation, not looking for a third temple, Looking for his appearing. Don't get sidetracked with an interpretation of eschatology that has you looking for anything but His appearing.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#19
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#19
DWR said:
Salvation can not be lost.
Only the lost will take the mark.
Click to expand...
Yep, this tautological argument is often used to explain why it is still by faith alone, apart from works that saves, even during the Tribulation.

Saved people do not take the mark.
If they do, they were never saved to begin with.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#20
#20
Guojing said:
Yep, this tautological argument is often used to explain why it is still by faith alone, apart from works that saves, even during the Tribulation.

Saved people do not take the mark.
If they do, they were never saved to begin with.
Click to expand...
In the first century under the persecution by certain emperors such as Nero and Domitian there were Christians who were required to declare ceasar as god and to deny Christ or to face horrible forms of death and torture. Those that chose the option to live were considered lost to the church. No one at that time taught that they were never saved to begin with. This is a new doctrine. If the early Christians believed they could still be saved if they denied Christ they would not have died instead. Not too many years after the reign of Domitian there were councils held to argue over whether some of those who denied Christ during the persecution and so were set free, should be allowed back into the church. Most said no. I am not sure who won that argument or if it was ever really settled. I suppose it is still raging in some circles.
 
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