Fallen Nature Testing

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The creator, by means of precognition, knew in advance that if He brought
human life into existence as planned; He would eventually be destroying
much of it in a global deluge. He went ahead and created human life as
planned anyway.

Also by means of precognition, the creator knew in advance that if He
brought human life into existence as planned; He would be torturing much of
it in Hell and eventually destroying much of it in a lake of brimstone. He
went ahead and created human life as planned anyway.

If the creator's decision to bring human life into existence as planned seems
unreasonable, and maybe even a touch fiendish and insane, then you test
positive for the so-called fallen nature.
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We where created to PRAISE AND GLORIFY YESUAH, He knew that he would haft to die in OUR place,
to for our PAST SINS, BUT he will end up with A Church, that will OBEY and LOVE HIM, for DIEING in THEIR PLACE, THAT THEY COULD REPENT And LIVE A RIGHTEOUS, WHICH means keeping and obeying GOD'S WORD AND COMMANDNENTS

Only if you're willing to believe that the living God has no power to turn of his precognition for the sake of revealing & exposing to the universe creation without his direction & the true sight of evil. Only if we believe there's no other life in our creators vast, vast universe where earthlings are testifying to same. Only if we fail the test of faith.

We really only have two free choices, born to die the eternal death, or born to die and receive the resurrection & eternal life in paradise. I'll vote for the latter every time. I have everything to gain and nothing to lose except the guarantee of death. I'll risk the inevitable for the possible.

Even if God knows by precognition who/which of us will make the cut and who/which of us wont, WE don't know, so where's the profit in risking the possible? If we're keeping the faith, we're likely a "maker of the cut" right? Otherwise why would we be bothering? Nobody I know ever said this life was gonna be easy, so I'll not expect it to be unless God directs me, that seems the easiest way for me, how about you? If I'm wrong, I'll never know it. If I'm right the universe will know it.

The Lord also knew many would accept His salvation, be cleansed of all their sin, and live with Him forever.

The Lord knew that many would accept the love He gave to their hearts, so they would spread love and kindness.

We don't have a perfect world by any means, but any history will tell you of the changes in the world when people accept the Lord in their life. Europe changed from the darkness of the middle ages. America's wild west was tamed by the Lord.

HE says come out , not be apart of it, that means that when you find out something is wrong and don't stand with the BIBLE, you come out, and let others know, that is how that the light free us from the darkness, the BIBLE is the light that can turn the darkness to light, that Satan tries to keep us in DARKNESS and from learning the things that the BIBLE is really saying

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I really have to question the mentality of folk who are comfortable with a
creator likened to a sort of celestial cattle rancher who raises hundreds of
head of livestock expecting they'll produce a few "blue ribbon" animals for
him to keep for breeding purposes whereas the second-rate animals are
shipped off to slaughter houses where many are made into dog food, and
cooked into tallow.

In my honest opinion (I should hope we're all being honest here) a creator
with such little regard for human life is a monster; a tyrannical despot far
more dangerous than North Korea's Kim Jong-Un.
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It's pretty obvious that we're in a simulation of some type. Not all the players are real, some are supporting characters.

God created man to live with Him forever. When God created the earth, it had to have both up and down, good and evil. There would be no up if there was no down. But God warned not to "eat the apple". The down, the sin, was contained so it did not affect man. Man disobeyed, that disobedience brought in death.

God's immediate resonce to that was to arrange a way for us not to experienace death. He gave blood on the altar, and we know that was what Christ did for us. We have only to choose to have Christ wipe our sins away and we can have eternal life. What is more, when we live with Christ in us, we can have joy in this world.

Then you believe in a God, right? Do you believe in Satan too? Your issue then is simply deciding which is the most evil, correct? Let us all know when you find out what Satan's promise after death is. I don't know what that is. I know what Christ's offer is, I reckon I'll stick with that.

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The human mind consists of consciousness and sub-consciousness. The sub
area is where we our minds store suppressed thoughts, feelings, and
desires; in other words: things we'd just as soon forget rather than think
about.

For example: most Christians cannot admit, even to themselves, their
honest opinions about God because those opinions are not only
unacceptable, but also unthinkable. Those thoughts and feelings about God
are so disturbing that sometimes when one leaks out for us to contemplate,
it actually makes us wince, possibly even shiver; and sometimes even
momentarily close our eyes and grit our teeth.

I started this thread as a self-test for the fallen nature. The results are
useful only when people are honest with themselves. For example:

If you were a creator, and by means of precognition knew in advance that
the human life you were thinking about bringing into existence would one
day require you to exterminate almost the entire batch in a deluge-- men,
women, underage children, infants, handicapped folk, and senior citizens
(not to mention birds, bugs, and beasts) --would you willfully and
deliberately go ahead and bring all that life into existence anyway knowing
full well in advance that your own hand would eventually be killing them by
means of a massive die-off?

In my honest opinion (I assume we're all being honest here) no reasonable
person, with normal sensitivities, would ever knowingly jeopardize so much
life just so they could have their very own sandbox to play in.

• Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your
pleasure that they exist and were created.

My opinion insinuates that the creator is an unreasonable person whose
sensitivities fall in the abnormal range. What does my opinion say about me?
Well; obviously it says that I test positive for the fallen nature.

• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.

FAQ: I am sometimes secretly opposed to the way God goes about His
business. Does that mean there is no hope for me?

A: Heb 9:1-14 teaches that Christ's blood serves to sanitize our minds; and
we only have to undergo that form of sanitation just once and it's good for
all time; we never have to repeat the process.

FAQ: Christ's blood can stop my mind from thinking bad thoughts about
God?

A: No, you can expect that those kinds of thoughts will continue to be a
nuisance; but they will never again be a barrier between you and God. Christ
will make sure of that. The remainder of the ninth chapter of Hebrews bears
that out.

FAQ: So, how do I go about obtaining this mental sanitation about which you
speak?

A: That's easy. Find yourself a place and simply speak up, admitting to God
that you have a sinful mind and would like to take advantage of His son's
blood to sanitize it. It sometimes helps to cover your face with your hands to
give you a sense of privacy between you and God. I pray like that all the
time; it works for me.
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People can easily overcome their fallen nature by having faith in God, praying to God, accepting Jesus Christ completely, following Jesus Christ's teachings, following God's commandments as best as they could, doing their best to avoid sins, and repenting of sins whenever possible. Of course, easily in the sense that there is a complete formula for how to do it, but not easily in effort obviously as that involves a lot of hard work and requires a lot of suffering along the way. In any case, eventually people who do all of that sufficiently enough are freed completely from the grasp of the Devil and stop questioning God like you're doing. This questioning is often invited by Satan to people who have gaps in their faith and behavior due to intentionally sinning without repentance or having unrepented sins they are too proud/stubborn to admit and repent of. Once you overcome such petty holdbacks, you realize that it is a gift to be alive in the first place and that without obedience to God, people would be more devoid of morals than anything you described as they'd be living a "dog eat dog" proud greedy blindly-lustful mentality instead of Christian turn-the-other-cheek meekness and kindness. As such, always pray to God to be protected by the Holy Spirit from such questioning thoughts. They come from the Devil and must be given no attention or importance whatsoever. After all, God created you and gave you the very brain and morals you are using to entertain such thoughts. Otherwise, you would have been no different from a dog skinning other animals alive without remorse. Also, who are you to question God anyways? Obviously no one worthy of questioning the Lord, the creator of heaven, earth, and all living things. Besides, since God is above all human judgement, he could do whatever he wants, and anything he does is good since it comes from him, the creator, and wouldn't have existed in the first place otherwise. After all, even if God happens to have created an earth where everyone freely chose evil over good except for one person, then what God did is still good for the one person who chose good over evil even if the rest will all sadly perish in Hell as a result of their inequity, disobedience, and irresponsibility. God did give them enough power to choose good over evil, but they disregarded his gifts, commandments, and warnings (remember there is always enough window for someone to escape temptation, but they have to take the right action right away, not commit the sin of sloth). Is God cruel for his judgement of man? Of course not! Who am I to judge God? Let alone I'd be intentionally committing the sin of pride and error of irrational thinking if I did judge him given I am nobody compared to him as a created human being whose brain came from God in the first place. Is God more fierce than North Korea's president!? Dahhh!! God is obviously stronger than everybody on earth, including President Trump, Putin, and Netanyahu, to name a few country leaders, and could hurt evil folks more than anyone on earth. Does that mean God is evil? This goes back to me not being in a position to judge God. Still, scripture says God is good, and I am called to believe and repeat that and only that out of obedience to God to go to Heaven, so that is the truth I accept. In any case, if I were to think of it logically, punishment of evil is good, so God is obviously good for punishing evildoers mercilessly after they've been given enough chances and then neglecting to do what's right. Do I feel comfortable with God being that way? I do after having cleansed my soul from evil, but I most certainly did not feel that way when I was in the grip of Satan before I was born again. It took a process of regeneration through the Holy Spirit by keeping God's commandments as best as I could for a while before I started getting comfortable with God, no matter his brutality. Of course, the biggest takeaway is that if you don't believe in God and obey him for petty nonsensical reasons such as "Oh, God is too cruel! I don't want to follow a cruel God!", God is still present with you believing in him or without you, and will exercise his fierce judgement upon you and put you in Hell on Judgement Day as a result. God can do whatever he wants, period.

Godspeed.

You seem very quick to judge before you hear the other side's testimony and try them to see if they are innocent or guilty. An opinion or suspicion alone doesn't stand even in a basic human court of law. Yet your very plea is against unfair judgment?

If it were up to me I would exterminate the entire batch and start over quite often.

But God is much slower to show His Wrath and avenge His Justice.

Because His Ways are much Higher than my ways and His Thoughts are much Higher than my own.


In your cattle allegory its funny that you show God raising the cattle knowing He will have to exterminate most of them. Turn them into dog food.

Aren't all cattle equal? How come some decide to be blue ribbon cattle and most others decide to be dog food? Is it because not all the cattle is Gods Cattle but most of it is the enemies cattle mixed in with Gods Cattle???

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In matters related to the origin of human life: all cattle on earth are the
progeny of the same bull.

• Acts 17:26 . . . From one man he made every nation of men

And all cattle on Earth are the progeny of the same cow.

• Gen 3:20 . . Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the
mother of all the living.

Ergo: There's, no such thing as cattle created by God and cattle created by
an enemy. All cattle on earth-- the good and the bad --were created by God.

• Ps 82:6 . . I have said: All of you are children of the most High.

It is a solid fact, easily derived from Biblical data, that before God brought
any cattle into existence, He already knew in advance, by means of
precognition, that He would be exterminating a number of them in a deluge:
men, women, underage children, infants, handicapped folk, and senior
citizens. And I'm not even taking into account that He also knew in advance
that numbers of His creations would end up suffering in Hell, and also boiled
to death in a lake of brimstone; yet He went ahead and created them anyway.

Christians have a really bad habit of trying to get around the data by means
of clever semantics and spiritual double speak instead of coming to grips with
its horrible reality.

There's a place in the Old Testament where a prophet was required to eat a
scroll which he said was sweet in his mouth, but sour in his tummy. Well,
this is like that; only nowadays we call it a bitter pill.
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We are all part of the seed of Adam. If only a remnant remains that pleases Him it merely speaks to the particularly exacting refining process our Lord employs

You do know that typing in all caps on a forum is considered to be equivalent to yelling? Which is why we generally don't do the all caps things, because it's perceived as hostile and rude, right?
Just letting you know if you don't already.

He has been told many times , yet he still does it...It is very annoying...
...xox...

You intelligently lay out the human dilemma, and possibly correctly. The kicker is for me at least is there are only two choices. You present very intelligently why scripture advises all to "fear God." It's relevant and very easy to believe that earthly humanity is simply a condemned rack of bones flesh and blood with little other value when compared to the absolute powers of the Creator of the entire universe. But that is likely to say his perfect love is just as powerful as his perfect anger and contempt for his human creation. Thereby I have to believe he has a perfect reason for his actions and it's not a heavenly game. I believe his purpose is to prove to the heavenly host and occupants of other worlds his power and the fact that his creations cannot live and survive peacefully, lovingly and self governed without his perfect governance, and our inevitable perfectly awful and hideous destruction is to be feared

Having relayed all of that personal opinion without a dime's worth of scripture to back it up, I still only see two choices The return of Christ brings with it a promise of resurrection and eternal life in paradise. The other choice only has eternal death to promise and a second death that likely won't be pretty. Therefor I strongly promote the former choice, FEAR GOD and seek his perfect love and reward of paradise and eternal life. It's a no-brainer!

Its just like Cain and Abel. Or Isaac and Ishmael.

Physically they came from the same parents.

But spiritually they belong to 2 different owners.

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Christians are typically very uncomfortable with passages in the Bible that
make God look cruel, unfair, and unloving. Much of the time when I attempt
to discuss those kinds of passages with them they circle the apologetic wagons
and begin shooting Bible verses at me like rifle slugs.

The Bible says that Christians are supposed to be reasonable, but I find that
many of them are defensive, emotional, reactive, and thoroughly incapable of
honest introspection.
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