The children of Abraham

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:7-9, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To Abraham it was said

“And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to Isaac it was said

“and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭26:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To Jacob it was said

“And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south:
and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭28:12-14‬ ‭

All the prophets had said

“Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:24-26‬ ‭

first to Israel

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:
repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then from Jerusalem to all the world

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

through this testament and word of God preached to all nations

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:7-8, 26-29

the church who believe the gospel are the children of Abraham

That does not in any way nullify God's promise to Abraham that redeemed and restored Israel -- the twelve tribes -- would be settled in land of greater Israel after the Second Coming of Christ. Kindly study the Abrahamic Covenant carefully.

We are often told that much of the old testament and some of the new testament was not to us as gentiles, it was only to Israel. We are not to listen to what was only to Israel, they say, so much of scripture is not for gentiles to read. We could have a separate bible for gentiles only.

Do you think these verses say we may listen to the Lord as the Lord speaks to Israel?

um yes I sort of quoted Peter talking about that “ Abrahamic” covenant and Paul also this is the covenant he made with Abraham and his seed


“Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:25-26‬ ‭

I think you should consider this parable dearest brother knowing it is a history of Gods dealings with Israel and thier dealings with Gods prophets and servants and the final result when they crucified Christ His son

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Thier are two covenants the first corresponds to the flesh and became a curse because they broke it

“Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6‬ ‭

That’s where thier covenant concludes an eternal curse over all mankind , that’s why all mankind needs to believe the gospel to be saved from the curse that Israel’s covenant became when they crucified Jesus . Thier kand became desolate it’s part of this now

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭

Brother consider the consistent doctrine of two creations in scripture one that is now and one that God has promised in Christ’s name that is to come

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There’s a new people being gathered in the new Jerusalem

“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jerusalem isn’t on this earth but it exists

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:

for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;

and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The land on this earth is all cursed and doomed because of Israel’s defiance of Bods continual warnings . Abraham’s promosed land was elsewhere also it’s just hard to grasp it

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses law that reigned in the land of Israel over the children ofnisrael doesn’t have anything to do with it , it’s about the promises God made to Abraham concerning his seed of promise . Not the seed of flesh but the one God promised .

the flesh was always to be cast out like ishmael read Paul’s allegory of the two sons of Abraham it makes clear what happened tonthier covenant

“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This world is doomed even the land of Israel , but God has a better place prepared by his promises now

Amen that’s a deception because the church , being whoever believes the gospel Jesus ordained and sent forth for salvation in his name and are baptized are the people of the covenant made with Abraham .

people confuse Moses law which came 430 years after the promise was made for all people , with Abraham’s covenant . The allegory of Isaac and ishmael explains a lot .

there’s only one people on earth who are going to be saved , it’s those who belong to Jesus whether born of Abraham’s bloodline or not we have a birthrite when we are baptized into Christ Jesus and it’s inheritance into the Eternal kingdom he has promised from the beginning

this kingdom

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:

for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭

that’s our kingdom we live for like Abraham seeing it from a far distance but we embrace the hope of Gods kingdom to come

it occurs to Me My wording may not be clear on this part of what we’re talking about

you know how my position is that the whole earth even the land of Israel is cursed , desolate and doomed because they broke the covenant ?

how I’m saying this earth is going to be destroyed and there will be a new heaven and earth ? Here’s something important about that and it relates to what you are getting at brother

it’s not that the earth is going to be physically obliterated and there’s going to be a new planet , but it’s like when God said this

“And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then he sent the floods and destroyed the earth everything was destroyed but what God saved on the dark , but it was made new in the new covenant the new start he made with Noah .

the earth is going to be like a death and resurrection everything destroyed by fire and then restored .

so yes , the same land will
Be given to the same people I totally agree . What I’m saying is , the people of Israel for that new creation are the church born through Christ . This creation doesn’t apply to eternal
Life eternal israel is being tethered now in the new Jerusalem n heaven after the earth is destroyed Jerusalem the new one with its new people from all nations will dwell
In the promosed land of Abraham’s descendants those born of faith not of flesh and blood

so I hope this sort of reconciles what you are saying thier promise is certain but it’s not going to happen until Jesus restores the earth to new after its doom

Oh goodness, Blik, here you go again with the gross misrepresentation.

Nobody says "We are not to listen to what was only to Israel."

Nobody says "So much of Scripture is not for gentiles to read."

I would ask you to quote anyone who has written such things, but you won't, and you won't withdraw the claim. Instead you just wait a few days and then make up another baseless accusation using twisted ideas.

Scripture says, "For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope." (Romans 15:4)

That was written to Christians. It says "for our instruction" but it doesn't say "for us to follow". Please try to understand the distinction.

I’ve actually heard the same thing from people not necessarily on this forum but in general life discussing things . A lot of the revolutionary grave teaching is based upon that very claim that nothing spoken to Israel applies to the church .

but I liked your thought and see you get that we can learn and grow in righteousness and understanding through every word of God , while not every word directory applies rookie time and our people .

God was always speaking about the end from the beginning and he’s always been the God of all people but his plan wasn’t fully revealed at first it unfolded and was revealed as the times appointed had come. Part of the plan was when the earth was corrupt to choose a single people and make a covenant with them , and use that as an example for all the people of the world later so they can understand the one true God

Pilgrims

And that is why Israel and the Church are the same. Not national Israel but Spiritual Israel, Abraham's Spiritual children.

Awesome post!

I’m glad you found some value in it brother , sorry for the length God bless

yes exactly . The church are the only people of God regardless of thier flesh identity nationality race age or gender there’s just one message of salvation to all of us whoever accepts the gospel is the israel of God , his elect

My understanding just cannot follow yours, I'm sorry.

I don't see how we can listen to scripture and not follow it.

As an example, we are not to follow fleshly circumcision, but it isn't because it was given to Jews, but because it is not required under Christ and the new covenant.

When we are told in Acts about the council meeting attended by Paul and James, it was because the Jews were insisting that gentiles become Jewish to belong to the Lord. That meant circumcision and following the Talmud or Mishna. They did not say they weren't to follow what the old testament told the Jews.

Then you need to get on your way, because God is telling you to "Go forth from your country, and from your relatives, and from your father's house, to the land which" (He) "will show you." (Genesis 12:1)

You also need to get yourself ready, because "Behold, you are with child, and you will bear a son, and you shall call his name Ishmael." (Genesis 16:11)

Wait, there's more... you need to "Take your son, your only son, whom you love... and offer him there as a burnt offering...." (Genesis 22:2).

Don't forget; you also need to go to the elders of Israel, Pharaoh, Canaan, Nineveh, and a few other places. Oh, and, "What you do, do quickly" (John 13:27).

Are you starting to get the picture? Just because God says, "Do this" in Scripture, it does not mean that God is telling Blik to do all those things. It's a historical record of God's dealings with other people.

Exactly!

Now... tell me where the new covenant requires you to follow the Sabbath requirements of the old testament, without also requiring you to follow all the other 612 laws.

James, the other elders, Paul, and the Holy Spirit disagree with your position; I'll take their word for it.

What you are doing is called "arguing from silence". While you are correct in saying the passage does not "say they weren't to follow what the old testament law told the Jews" you are assuming that it says the opposite.

What I am assuming is that the Lord has all people in mind when the Lord speaks, the Lord has no favorites. I assume we are all to look for truth in all scripture.

The Jews were given the mission of being caretakers of the word for all mankind, they are given a special thanks for that. That special thanks is not because of racism.

However, as with the examples I cited, the words of the Lord may not be directed to all people. God spoke specifically to Abram (later called Abraham), but God did not intend that "all people" follow the directions that He gave to Abram. Similarly, God spoke specifically to Israel (the nation) through Moses, but God did not intend that "all people" follow the directions that He gave to Israel.

Agreed.

they said specifically about the matter of whether they were to be circumcised , and follow the law of
Moses . Thier reasoning was that the law has always been a yoke that Israel could never bear so why add it into the new covenant

special thanks ?

“Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Israel broke and defiled his covenant for generations never came into obedience always constantly rebelled worshipped other Gods so this part of thier law came to pass And a new covenant was then made after

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

The Lord shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.

The Lord shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. The Lord shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away. The Lord will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.

The Lord shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.

Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her: thou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not gather the grapes thereof. Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee:

thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue them. Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be no might in thine hand. The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: So that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

The Lord shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head. The Lord shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone. And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the Lord shall lead thee.

Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the Lord shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young: And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15-37, 48-51‬ ‭

that’s just part of the curses they were promised it’s why paul explains very simply

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬

none of us has the authority to change one word of the law or eliminate certain aspects of it it is a whole law so if a person breaks one command they are a law breaker forever and therefore cursed

the only way out of that curse is to be baptized into christs death and become dead to the whole law and accept the new covenant law of Christ the breaking of the covenant from Sinai is why we need salvation it concluded death upon all sinners

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and scripture concluded all have sinned because the laws purpose is to bring sin to light for the sinner and hold them guilty

“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:9-10, 19, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And so the new covenant is Christ fulfilling the death requirement for sin according to the first covenant for a believer , and teacher the believer the things of Gods eternal
Kingdom and covenant .

the gospel comes after all have been declared sinners

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel is the law that was sent forth from Jerusalem for salvation that the prophets foretold

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5‬ ‭

“And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.”
‭‭Micah‬ ‭4:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think that when the Lord spoke to Israel, he would have preferred to have the nations included. God did not want them to be pagans with idols. God often taught to Israelites to include the strangers and sojourners with them, just as the lord included them if they would accept Him.

You can think that all you like, but because you can't provide Scripture which says so, you would do well to hold it very lightly.

Right. That doesn't mean He gave the Law to all nations though.

Again, the inclusion of foreigners with Israel is not the same thing as giving the Law to all the nations.