How many beleive we are in the Tribulation period now and why

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Are we in the Tribulation period now ?


  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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I can't believe you dispensational guys aren't freaking out right now. If there ever will be anything that looks like the dispensational end times, this is it. Maybe you guys aren't freaking out because you're waiting for "The Antichrist" to come on the seen or the rapture to happen I guess.

I'm curious of something in this but I am not dispensational. As we know they see that in their view the MoS,mark tribulation ect. comes after the rapture and then so to them this cannot take place until after their departure.

That said though moving on to Revelation 6:9-11 there are these who are dressed in (robes white) who are asking "how long..." and told to wait because there were others who would follow(killed) as they were for their testimony. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6.htm

Then in Revelation 7 it begins by stating that the four winds are being held back until the ones who were to be sealed in their foreheads. So the first group in white robes are before the seal is given in their foreheads. Then after these are sealed there is another group dressed in white robes and they are identified as those who came out of the tribulation great/GT(topic of OP) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/7.htm

So what makes me curious is this in Revelation 6:9 it gives the reason they were killed https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-9.htm and then in Revelation 6:11 they are told to that the ones they were waiting for would be killed just like them and for the same reason https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-11.htm Then so if we are in or about to be in the great tribulation who are these who are being killed in great multitudes that are innumerable and who is it who is killing them because of their testimony of Christ and who are the ones who were sealed?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,702
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How about you respond to my post first
First post of this thread or first post to me? Be specific. Share the post number.


I explained it Completely when I broke down the passage feel free to do the same or feel free to break down my post from beginning to end.
Will do. Just don't be intimidated by all the words in the post. Read them all as you expect me to.


MPs I did not attack instated a fact
Like I can't read? Ok. Then I'll freely state a few facts, to be fair.


Youbreposed to 5 of my posts in one long post. Which makes it virtually impossible to respond to on a small phone.
Funny, every reply to you I've posted from my phone. I thought it be easier to reply to a multitude of your posts to me in one single post. I guess that's too much? So be it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
First post of this thread or first post to me? Be specific. Share the post number.




Will do. Just don't be intimidated by all the words in the post. Read them all as you expect me to.




Like I can't read? Ok. Then I'll freely state a few facts, to be fair.




Funny, every reply to you I've posted from my phone. I thought it be easier to reply to a multitude of your posts to me in one single post. I guess that's too much? So be it.
All I hear is a bunch of fluff and blame shifting

Do you want to discuss or not?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I'm curious of something in this but I am not dispensational. As we know they see that in their view the MoS,mark tribulation ect. comes after the rapture and then so to them this cannot take place until after their departure.

That said though moving on to Revelation 6:9-11 there are these who are dressed in (robes white) who are asking "how long..." and told to wait because there were others who would follow(killed) as they were for their testimony. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6.htm
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
OT saints. Under the alter means covered by the blood in Abraham's bosom.

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Asking when their blood will be avenged.... Answer AD70.

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The white robes are the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness of Christ came at either the cross or the resurrection. That's when they were given their white robes. Their fellow servants that should be killed were Peter, Paul, Stephen etc.
Then in Revelation 7 it begins by stating that the four winds are being held back until the ones who were to be sealed in their foreheads. So the first group in white robes are before the seal is given in their foreheads. Then after these are sealed there is another group dressed in white robes and they are identified as those who came out of the tribulation great/GT(topic of OP) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/7.htm

So what makes me curious is this in Revelation 6:9 it gives the reason they were killed https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-9.htm and then in Revelation 6:11 they are told to that the ones they were waiting for would be killed just like them and for the same reason https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-11.htm Then so if we are in or about to be in the great tribulation who are these who are being killed in great multitudes that are innumerable and who is it who is killing them because of their testimony of Christ and who are the ones who were sealed?
Revelation 6 was the sealing of the 144,000 (symbolic number I believe) that were given divine protection while the wrath of God was poured out on Jerusalem in AD 70.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Not dead people in heaven in my opinion, but people who came to Christ during the tribulation especially around the time of God pouring out his wrath against Jerusalem.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,772
1,548
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Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
OT saints. Under the alter means covered by the blood in Abraham's bosom.

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Asking when their blood will be avenged.... Answer AD70.

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The white robes are the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness of Christ came at either the cross or the resurrection. That's when they were given their white robes. Their fellow servants that should be killed were Peter, Paul, Stephen etc.

Revelation 6 was the sealing of the 144,000 (symbolic number I believe) that were given divine protection while the wrath of God was poured out on Jerusalem in AD 70.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Not dead people in heaven in my opinion, but people who came to Christ during the tribulation especially around the time of God pouring out his wrath against Jerusalem.

So you seeing the GT past tense here and present/future tense in post #138?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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So you seeing the GT past tense here and present/future tense in post #138?
Yes the time of Jacob's trouble was long ago, finished, over with. The great tribulation was the transition of stewardship of the kingdom of God from Israel to Christ.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Reoccurring theme throughout the bible. The firstborn should legally receive the inheritance but instead they give it away and it goes to the second born. Israel was God's firstborn son, Christ is the second born (born from above) son.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Nov 23, 2013
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How can an Jewish person(religion) fulfill Revelation 6:9 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-9.htm if they did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah?
Rev 6:9 is the Old Testament saints that died in Christ before Christ came. They were in Abraham's bosom until Christ paid for their redemption. At the point they put on the righteousness of Christ and were raised from the dead.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,772
1,548
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Rev 6:9 is the Old Testament saints that died in Christ before Christ came. They were in Abraham's bosom until Christ paid for their redemption. At the point they put on the righteousness of Christ and were raised from the dead.
So in post #138 your meaning is that there is no point to warn people that we are in the GT nor that it is future because it's already fulfilled?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Meanwhile, no post number. Did you read the post? Post number.
Your the one trying to prove me wrong. Want me to do all the work for you?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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So in post #138 your meaning is that there is no point to warn people that we are in the GT nor that it is future because it's already fulfilled?
Yes that comment came from a previous comment that I made where I said that I couldn't believe the dispensationalist weren't freaking out about current events and thinking the current events are the great tribulation.

To be clear, I don't think we are in the tribulation, the tribulation happened 2000 years ago.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,702
684
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Your the one trying to prove me wrong. Want me to do all the work for you?
EG: answer my first post

Y: ok. was that the 1st post of thread or 1st post to me? what's the number?

EG: I'm not gonna tell you.

----

Come on let's discuss. You asked me to answer YOUR post. Don't do what cowards do. Which post number is it? 3rd time. You have my full attention.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,772
1,548
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Yes that comment came from a previous comment that I made where I said that I couldn't believe the dispensationalist weren't freaking out about current events and thinking the current events are the great tribulation.

To be clear, I don't think we are in the tribulation, the tribulation happened 2000 years ago.

That is what was unclear about and made me curious so thank you for clarifying. I don't see this the same though because the one who is in Revelation 17:8 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17-8.htm who is that beast who is killing these in the GT had not yet ascended from the pit. Neither had the 7th head or the ten kings/horns https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm and so those who would be killed because they would not worship the image(Rev.13:15) could not be killed until after these came into existence. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13.htm ... Thank you for clarifying your position I will continue viewing the thread.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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That is what was unclear about and made me curious so thank you for clarifying. I don't see this the same though because the one who is in Revelation 17:8 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17-8.htm who is that beast who is killing these in the GT had not yet ascended from the pit. Neither had the 7th head or the ten kings/horns https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm and so those who would be killed because they would not worship the image(Rev.13:15) could not be killed until after these came into existence. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13.htm ... Thank you for clarifying your position I will continue viewing the thread.
One thing we know is that the book of Revelation is all about the unsealing a book. The only book that was sealed as far as I can tell, was the Old Testament. The Old Testament can't be understood without the New Testament.

It could be that the first part of Revelation, up until chapter 7 is about the past and the other parts are future. I don't think that is case, but it could be.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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These back and forth posts can get pretty long, and we only have 10000 characters, so I must be selective in what I reply to. I read your posts.



Well for several principles we know about Him:

a) It's because the Almighty doesn't change

There being a gap in between the sixty ninth seven and the last seven years, does not mean that God has changed. As I previously posted, there is a 2000 year gap between when Jesus quoted Isaiah regarding the vengeance of our God.

b) when we have two or more witnesses such can be established as the truth

c) The Almighty doesn't do anything unless He first tells about it, especially if it would overturn a previous determination

d) His word doesn't return to Him void. He made a determination about a countdown.

Truly, agreed, there are numerous prophetic scriptures that were only partially fulfilled. And many times only part of sentences were fulfilled (with the rest of the sentence being left for the future). But when it comes to TIME; when it comes to the Almighty prophesying a specific amount of time for an event, He is exact because time does not pause. The world keeps turning. Days keeping counting. Years keep coming to pass.

Seventy "sevens", 490 years were given to the people and to Jerusalem to end their sin (and to do other important stuff). It was a countdown until judgment: either they'd be saved or condemned to destruction...and we know which path judgment took.

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Instead of answering each one of those that you listed, which by the changes nothing, I will post why the last seven years has to be a future event. Let's first look at the decree that was pronounced upon Israel and Jerusalem:

"Seventy weeks (of years) are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

* Israel's transgressions are still on-going

* Israel is still committing sins

* That have yet to recognize the One who made atonement for them for their sins

* Everlasting righteousness has not yet been brought in

* Visions and prophesies have not been completed in order to seal them up

* The Most Holy Place has not yet been anointed

None of the things listed in the decree of seventy seven year periods stated in Daniel 9:24 has been fulfilled.

Consider the following as well .......

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ i he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple j he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. ”

Jesus quoted Daniel's scripture above in Matthew 24:15-22. From the time that Jesus quoted it, there has been:

* No seven year covenant made with Israel

* No ceasing of the daily sacrifices and offerings from the time He quoted it until the destruction of the temple

* No abomination was set up in the holy place within the temple until it was destroyed

All of these are literal events that must take place, not allegorical or symbolic. This is where discernment between the two is paramount. These events do not read like a seven headed dragon, or woman clothed with the sun. It's straight forward in its meaning, i.e. a seven year covenant must be made with Israel, the sacrifices and offering much be stopped, that idolatrous reeking stench referred to as the abomination, must be set up in the holy place within the temple.

None of these events have yet taken place, and therefore must be fulfilled in the future.

We can't change His word to fit our viewpoint.
I am not one to do that, but utilize all related scriptures to come to my conclusions. That is just an apologetic to discredit what I have proclaimed. People do the same thing when they claim that we can't know the word of God. It's an attempt to end the argument quickly.

No, no I didn't say they were killed by the rider of the white horse. I was listing the order of events that the Messiah gave and that Revelation 6 gave, showing that the Messiah's disciples are martyred 5th in order (5TH SEAL) while the rider of the white horse is unleashed 1st in order (1ST SEAL)

Logical Position: If we know that the disciples were killed in the first century...but that event is 5th in the order...then the white horse rider had to be unleashed sometime AFTER the Messiah ascended to heaven but sometime BEFORE the disciples were persecuted and killed, in the first century also.
Your error is the assumption that the martyr's shown under the altar at the 6th seal are Jesus original disciples. There is no scripture that would support these under the altar as being the disciples of the first century. These will most likely be saints who will have been killed during the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period, during the time of the seals.

The fact is, that these events are all future and will take place during the tribulation period.


Punchline:
(more or less) The Seals judged Israel
Below is the error of your claim that the Seals are only for Israel
Fourth Seal
Then I looked and saw a pale green horse. Its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed close behind. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill by sword, by famine, by plague, and by the beasts of the earth."

At the fourth seal, Death and Hades are given authority to kill a fourth of the earths population. The only apologetic that you can use, is you claim that "over a fourth of the earth" only refers to the old occupied Roman territory. But as I said before, the information in Revelation is future, having to do with God's coming wrath and the Lord's return to end the age.

Needless to say, Israel would not make up a fourth of the earths population by itself. The proper interpretation is a fourth over the entire world. In fact, in Revelation the numbers that are cited are in regards to the whole earth.

That's the fourth seal. Likewise, we have not yet seen any of the seals, the first one representing the antichrist.

The Trumpets judged the Roman Empire...The Bowls are judging today's entire world. It's a progression of judgment throughout history that started with 70AD and has expanded to the world in these last 2000 years.
The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, are meant to take place like a woman having birth pains. They are meant to be poured out upon the immediate population, which is what makes them so terrible, because all of those events of wrath will be taking place one after another. With your historical version no one is affected. No one even notices. They are meant to bring the world into total chaos and destruction right up until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age.

As long as you continue to believe in and teach the historical view, you will always be in error regarding the truth of these events. You are also taking away from the prophesies of this book, because you have adopted a historical view, instead of the literal meaning. The historical view has to be applied. Where the literal view just has to be read and believed.

Everything that you have cited above, is just misapplied historical events to what is written in the book of Revelation. You won't be able to say, "but Lord, your word doesn't say that!"
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
EG: answer my first post

Y: ok. was that the 1st post of thread or 1st post to me? what's the number?

EG: I'm not gonna tell you.

----

Come on let's discuss. You asked me to answer YOUR post. Don't do what cowards do. Which post number is it? 3rd time. You have my full attention.
So I have to do the work to go back And try to find a post you already had a chance to answer?
I know I am not going to Convince you. You had your chance to convince me and failed
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,702
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So I have to do the work to go back And try to find a post you already had a chance to answer?
If you want an answer to it, yes, you need to tell me which one. That's how it works.

I know I am not going to Convince you. You had your chance to convince me and failed
Yup. That's about what I expected from you. More dodging and shrinking back.

You're wasting my time. Hours wasted on a lot of nothing. I'll engage Ahwatukee since he actually has substance and not empty posturing.

Engage me again on this or any subject and I promise you I wont "miss my chance" again :)
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
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What do you think?
While I am not certain whether a covenant with many has yet been initiated that lasts seven years in which there is great tribulation, I do, however, believe we are in the beginning of the day of the Lord, which correlate with many of the dire events in the Olivet discourse that precede the appearance of the Abomination of desolation, who initiates the seven year covenant with many. We are now when many people who are fleeing from one dire situation in the world, only find another unwelcome dire situation wherever they may run.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light. 19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. 20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?