Calvinists are preaching a false message .

Paul says we are predestined to the Adoption. According to Romans 8.23 when is the adoption?

Why not ask God to explain to you why your gospel is false? If God COMMANDS all men everywhere to repent, He expects all men everywhere to repent. Which totally NULLIFIES your gospel.

Which means the SAME THING, you just don't seem to realize that. The key to learning is to be able to allow God to correct us.



And the earth is 4.5 billion years old. So, what's the need in saying before the foundation? It's a given God is eternal, and all of His eternity is past, present, and future, all at the same time. He lives in our future now, already. The timing of when Jesus was crucified, didn't stop Abraham from being justified by THE PROMISE of his coming. Slain from the foundation of the world means he was slain 4.5 billion years before Mankind was created. But it actually is saying He always knew that a fallen creation would need a perfect sacrifice. God knows all things at all ties, He lives in all-time at the same time.

So, even though it may be hard to grasp before God created the earth, He was living with us in Heaven, thus when the Bible says Jesus was slain, God was already living with us in the future, in Heaven. LOL, I know, it's wild, but it's factual according to the bible.

Which means the SAME THING, you just don't seem to realize that. The key to learning is to be able to allow God to correct us.



And the earth is 4.5 billion years old. So, what's the need in saying before the foundation? It's a given God is eternal, and all of His eternity is past, present, and future, all at the same time. He lives in our future now, already. The timing of when Jesus was crucified, didn't stop Abraham from being justified by THE PROMISE of his coming. Slain from the foundation of the world means he was slain 4.5 billion years before Mankind was created. But it actually is saying He always knew that a fallen creation would need a perfect sacrifice. God knows all things at all ties, He lives in all-time at the same time.

So, even though it may be hard to grasp before God created the earth, He was living with us in Heaven, thus when the Bible says Jesus was slain, God was already living with us in the future, in Heaven. LOL, I know, it's wild, but it's factual according to the bible.

Verse 23 speaks about the "ADOPTION" we have carnal minds because of the fall of mankind, we need to take on Christ and the Spirit is our guide to lead us unto all truths. But what Paul is saying in verse 29 and 30, is that God gave us a way back from the curse of Adam, via the "PREDESTINATED SACRIFICE" of Jess who was slain before the foundations of the world [ever existed] says the book of Revelation. WATCH HOW I DELINIATE THESE FACTS:

Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow(WeLl, God FOREKNOWS all and all things), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son (Do you GET IT ? God Predestined EVERYONE to be CONFORMED unto Jess Christ with the simple ASKING), that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also calledGod calls EVERY MAN, the bible says so) and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified(God justified us in Jesus Christ), them he also glorified.

The problem is people do not look at other verses to confirm the bible. God states that he would not that ANY SHOULD PERISH, thus God calls all men unto him, and Pau is saying here, God predestined all mankind to be purged from their evil sin nature via the flood of Jesus Christ, then God who foreknew mankind would need to be purged, sent his son to be that once and for all Sacrificial Lamb, whereby all who receive this PURGING can thus be glorified in Christ Jesus.

They wrote these passages in Greek, then translated them into Old English[e]. I understand the KJV style, so it doesn't trip me up, but the reason is I goo about confirming these truths elsewhere in the bible, the essence of the bible shows God could never Predestinate people to Heaven or Hell and be a just God, BUT he could PREDESTINATE a Sacrificial Lamb for us all. So, I know what it means. Likewise, Daniel 7:11 says the Beast will DIE and then be cast into hellfire but Rev. 19:20 says the Beast will be CAST ALIVE into hell, so what gives? Well, Dan. 7:11 says the Beat will be killed and his body Destroyed, THAT IS PRETTY SPECIFIC, so reading Rev. 19:20, I can read between the lines, we know that ALL MEN (even the Anti-Christ/Beast must die one and be JUDGED, he has that right also. In this instance, he is killed, BUT he is never allowed to go to the Grave and sleep, he is cast STRAIGHT INTO HELL, Alive because our Souls never die. So, he is never given the chance to rest in a grave as all the others who will be judged in 1000 years at the Second Resurrection. This is how you gave to look at the bible, you have to work these things out. God did not predestine some to Heaven and some to hell, Paul is saying God predestined us all to be reconciled, but its up to us to ACCEPT the pardon !! Amen.

If i say things reguarding BEFORE my children were born or FROM they were born ,this is a massive difference . What your doing is reasoning " hmm since God must be this or that ,therefore this verse must mean this " . Calvinism and other faulty systems are built on this type of faulty reasoning. Instead of allowing Gods word to tell us as much as we can understand about God's perspective.

However, we should believe that God reinforces his electors with the reins of mystery, and he often miraculously hides the sparks of faith in their hearts. When the time comes, he will rekindle them with the breath of the Holy Spirit.---john calvin

Do you agree?

Disagree. Election is never to salvation.

It could not be any more simple.
God holds everyone responsible. Response - able . Jesus Marvels at peoples ' unbelief ' . God commands all men everywhere to repent. It could not be clearer that Jesus died for all and that all can respond positively to the Gospel.
But Calvinism teaches the exact opposite to the bible . This is a serious issue . One in which should concern us ,as the popularity of Calvinism is currently at its peak ..
What say you?

Let the bible interpret the Bible. Your adding man's philosophy into your reasoning.

If i say things reguarding BEFORE my children were born or FROM they were born ,this is a massive difference . What your doing is reasoning " hmm since God must be this or that ,therefore this verse must mean this " . Calvinism and other faulty systems are built on this type of faulty reasoning. Instead of allowing Gods word to tell us as much as we can understand about God's perspective.

First of all; What God predestinate will come to pass. It does not require "asking" to make it happen.

Jesus was an offering to God, for God's acceptance, and not to man, for man's acceptance. His offering was for the purpose of paying for the sin dept for all of those that his Father gave him. Jesus accomplished his purpose on the cross, saying "it is finished", and all that he died for have been secured to live with him in heaven, without the lose of one.

You have misinterpreted and misused scriptures in your attempt to prove your theory, which has failed. All scriptures must harmonize, if you are to understand the truths within them.

No, you just can't keep up with me brother. That's your go-to accusation any time you feel the water is over your head. Always have a counterpoint t you lose a debate brother. Besides, you don't even seem to understand we are arguing the same point, Calvinism is not only worn, it's wrongheaded.



You nor I have God's Eternal Godhead, so we thus were created, He wasn't created, thus He lives in all time at once, TIME does not constrain God, He was born outside of time (this universe) thus he has no beginning or ending. God created the time-space continuum for us.

I am arguing against Calvinism by the way. Go back and reread my posts.

God Bless

No, you just can't keep up with me brother. That's your go-to accusation any time you feel the water is over your head. Always have a counterpoint t you lose a debate brother. Besides, you don't even seem to understand we are arguing the same point, Calvinism is not only worn, it's wrongheaded.



You nor I have God's Eternal Godhead, so we thus were created, He wasn't created, thus He lives in all time at once, TIME does not constrain God, He was born outside of time (this universe) thus he has no beginning or ending. God created the time-space continuum for us.

I am arguing against Calvinism by the way. Go back and reread my posts.

God Bless

Okay,but I think The words no problem.

Matthew 22:14
King James Version
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

my understanding Matthew 22:14 that is
God is calling all human and choose few at the same time,cuz The few are chosen that can leading all.

Do you agree?

Hebrews 4:12
King James Version
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Does it require YOU asking God for forgiveness or does God specifically transfer that unto you but no one else? I am waiting on this doozy of an answer because you are BOXED IN sir. Paul is CLEARLY SAYING that God PREDESTINATED us all to reconcile unto Him, but some listen to Satan and refuse that gift of purging. God wants every man to be saved, Paul told you that, yet you persist in saying Paul says God predetermines some men to Heaven and some men to hell, which would make Paul and I guess God a liar since that would mean God doesn't really desire all men to be saved. Yet, you guys never think these things through, and like Calvin, you lead others in error, imho.

Since those two statements can not be reconciled, one has to DIG DEEPER (YEA) and find out the real truth. So, does God desire for every man to be saved, OR does God predetermine some to Heaven and some to hell? OR is it human error? BOOM, it's of course Human error, God can not lie, and since Paul traveled to the 3rd Heaven in Spirit, I believe what he says. So, WHAT GIVES? What gives is Paul is speaking about God's PREDETERMITIVE REASONING, He foresaw that mankind would fall, therefore God predetermined that we would need to be reconciled by a PERFECT SACRIFICE. Thuss he preordained us all to Heaven via the free gift of Salvation. All one has to do is REPENT and ask for Forgiveness, and BELIEVE that Jesus is the Son of the living God.

Now, that is the only thing that FITS, else God via Paul lied about wanting all men to be saved. This ain't hard brother. You guys complicate it by OVERTHINKING or by following MEN'S (Calvin) Traditions like the Pharisees did. READ THE BIBLE, it's all in there.

God Bless

Okay,but I think The words no problem.

Matthew 22:14
King James Version
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

my understanding Matthew 22:14 that is
God is calling all human and choose few at the same time,cuz The few are chosen that can leading all.

Do you agree?

Hebrews 4:12
King James Version
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Called for what ? Chosen for what ? why do you leap to that conclusion given the context of the actual verse ? Judas was chosen .

Called for Salvation and called for all human being.
Chosen for guide as Twelve apostles, Paul.etc.

Judas was chosen by Satan,and he repent.what If he didn't hang himself, he could preach the gospel.

Hebrews 4:12
I use this scripture because I try to understand every single scripture two meaning.
One is predestined，
one is mine.

Many are called to be his elect people, but few are chosen to be revealed the doctrine, by the revelation of the Holy Ghost.

Many enter the wide gate, but few enter the straight gate, Matt 7:13-14

Does it require YOU asking God for forgiveness or does God specifically transfer that unto you but no one else? I am waiting on this doozy of an answer because you are BOXED IN sir. Paul is CLEARLY SAYING that God PREDESTINATED us all to reconcile unto Him, but some listen to Satan and refuse that gift of purging. God wants every man to be saved, Paul told you that, yet you persist in saying Paul says God predetermines some men to Heaven and some men to hell, which would make Paul and I guess God a liar since that would mean God doesn't really desire all men to be saved. Yet, you guys never think these things through, and like Calvin, you lead others in error, imho.

Since those two statements can not be reconciled, one has to DIG DEEPER (YEA) and find out the real truth. So, does God desire for every man to be saved, OR does God predetermine some to Heaven and some to hell? OR is it human error? BOOM, it's of course Human error, God can not lie, and since Paul traveled to the 3rd Heaven in Spirit, I believe what he says. So, WHAT GIVES? What gives is Paul is speaking about God's PREDETERMITIVE REASONING, He foresaw that mankind would fall, therefore God predetermined that we would need to be reconciled by a PERFECT SACRIFICE. Thuss he preordained us all to Heaven via the free gift of Salvation. All one has to do is REPENT and ask for Forgiveness, and BELIEVE that Jesus is the Son of the living God.

Now, that is the only thing that FITS, else God via Paul lied about wanting all men to be saved. This ain't hard brother. You guys complicate it by OVERTHINKING or by following MEN'S (Calvin) Traditions like the Pharisees did. READ THE BIBLE, it's all in there.

God Bless