Not a Salvation Issue / Not Required for Salvation

Godcares · Jan 17, 2021

I have listened to discussions between different Christians and also read different posts from CC members regarding the obedience of certain things in the bible and other members dismissing the topic and responding by saying “that this is not a salvation issue”. I am hoping that there are members who will answer the following questions for me:

1. How do you know if something in the bible is a salvation issue?
2. If something is not a salvation issue and is not required for salvation, does that mean that it does not matter to God if it is not obeyed?

oyster67 · Jan 17, 2021

Great idea for a Topic!

1.) Salvation and maintenance thereof requires only two things:

Matthew
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Notice that this does not allow for any man to get or stay saved by doing any magical 'work' or ordinance or sacraments. It is all based on faith and love. Jesus did all the heavy lifting on the Cross.

Ephesians
2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Verse 9 shows us that no man can boast that He acquired salvation by his own hand.

---------------------------------------------------------------

2.) Now we see verse 10... Here we see how 'other things' fit into the picture. God uses us to produce good work through the guidance and power of His Spirit. We are vessels and tools in the master's hand.

Some things we do are simply ordinances and sacraments we do to remember what He did for us. These things are not required for Salvation, but can be profitable for understanding and growth if kept in their proper place.

throughfaith · Jan 17, 2021

Godcares said:

If its another Gospel then its a salvation issue . It it hinders the Gospel or obscures the Gospel its an issue . It all matters . Even if its not directly about the Gospel. Although very little in the bible is not about the Gospel.

Corban · Jan 17, 2021

Godcares said:

The Bible is primarily a revelation of God, His Christ and His plan with man and the earth. Seeing as Christ is Maker of all, Sustainer of all and Provider of all, even if salvation was not a theme, should not the lowly creature ask what his God want's of him? We accord this honor to our boss or foreman the day we start a new job. How much more should we diligently seek the scriptures to know (i) about our Maker, and (ii) what He wants from us? Luke 24 ...

25 "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."

With this in mind, what isn't important in the Bible?

oyster67 · Jan 17, 2021

Corban said:

Good point. No problems exist with our Bible. It is man's abuse of the Bible that causes discord and confusion. Men will likely try to plead ignorance, but the Bible says all will be without excuse. All men have been given fair enough warning. I sometimes get tired of men who get a big kick out of playing stupid and playing devil's advocate. To all who hold God's Word in contempt; Get smart now, or feel the smart later.

Blik · Jan 17, 2021

oyster67 said:

Great idea for a Topic!

1.) Salvation and maintenance thereof requires only two things:

Matthew
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Notice that this does not allow for any man to get or stay saved by doing any magical 'work' or ordinance or sacraments. It is all based on faith and love. Jesus did all the heavy lifting on the Cross.

Ephesians
2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Verse 9 shows us that no man can boast that He acquired salvation by his own hand.

---------------------------------------------------------------

2.) Now we see verse 10... Here we see how 'other things' fit into the picture. God uses us to produce good work through the guidance and power of His Spirit. We are vessels and tools in the master's hand.

Some things we do are simply ordinances and sacraments we do to remember what He did for us. These things are not required for Salvation, but can be profitable for understanding and growth if kept in their proper place.

I think this thoroughly explains. Thanks.

I would like to add the life we are to live after salvation. We are told that the message of Jesus includes not wanting to sin, or repentance as it is biblically called. Paul asks us if, being dead to sin, we should want to live in sin. We are made righteous through Christ, and our wanting to be righteous and forgiven. We are not to live as people who wants to be in sin. It is enough that without Christ we do even what we don't want to do, but we are to give our wants to the Lord.

pottersclay · Jan 18, 2021

To be truthful no one knows all of Gods ways for his ways are higher than ours.
Many things shall be revealed in the last days.
As paul preaches Christ crucified we must guard ourselves in that doctrine and not listen to every wind of doctrine that has made its way through the church.
As the gospels point out that the first believers did not understand nor believe in the resurrection as jesus spoke of yet on that great and glorious day the truth was revealed and understood.
There unbelief did not cause them to be excluded from salvation but rather to behold the salvation of the Lord.

Look up for your redemption draws near.

Nehemiah6 · Jan 18, 2021

Godcares said:

Not in the least. Salvation includes sanctification, which includes obedience to God and Christ. And don't let someone else's opinion of what is a salvation issue and what is not influence you. You have the Bible and the Holy Spirit, and you are accountable for yourself.

Lisamn · Jan 18, 2021

throughfaith said:

Galatians‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭
A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.
‭‭

oldethennew · Jan 18, 2021

ECC. 12:13.
Let us hear the conclusion of the 'whole matter':
Fear God, and KEEP His Commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
HELLO???

Godcares · Jan 20, 2021

Dear Everyone

Thank you for responses.

However, no one has really answered my questions. Perhaps I should a few give examples.

How can we be certain that not giving to the poor or that not being baptized or how much we eat etc. will not affect our salvation?

Personally, when I read the bible I do not believe that anyone can actually tell that something is not a salvation issue. But, I hear that phrase “this is not a salvation issue” very often and I believe that it is based on personal opinion. However, I open to be corrected.

p_rehbein · Jan 20, 2021

Godcares said:

You are confusing salvation with sanctification and justification and living a Christ like life.

Salvation is explained as well as anyone needs it explained in John 3:16.

Salvation IS NOT the end of it all. Salvation is the BEGINNING of a new believers walk with Jesus through this world.

So, concerning salvation..........IF one believes that Jesus is who He says He is and with a sincere and contrite heart, asks Him to come into their lives as Lord and Savior. He will.

To answer all of your questions completely would take one writing an ENTIRE BOOK, and, shoot, who's got time for that? uh, no, wait............SOMEONE already has. THE HOLY BIBLE.

If you have questions, just open up the Book that has ALL THE ANSWERS.....

Godcares · Jan 20, 2021

p_rehbein said:

So, when in Mark 16:16 it says "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
You interpret it as saying baptism is part of sanctification and justification?

Adstar · Jan 20, 2021

Godcares said:

God declares what is good and right for people to do and what is evil and wrong for people to avoid doing..

People who acknowledge that the will of God is good will also acknowledge their failure to do the will of God is a sin that needs the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ to be forgiven..

A Christians salvational status is not destroyed by their failure to do the will of God.. Their salvational status is destroyed if they disbelieve or reject or declare that the will of God is evil.. One must both believe the LORD Jesus.. His Word to be actually believing the Actual Jesus not a false cut down version of Jesus if you will a Idol jesus or another jesus..

God is not happy with any sin or failure to do his will.. But God is long suffering toward us and is quick to forgive and slow to wrath..

Adstar · Jan 20, 2021

Godcares said:

If it was the case that a failure to do the will of God disqualified that person from salvation. Then Everyone would be damned and there would be no point in striving to follow the Holy Bible..

And i believe this IS a Salvational issue.. If a person believes that their failure to do the will of God will affect their salvation in regard to the LAW and good works or religious observances. Then i believe that person is Not Saved... People who question the sufficiency of the Atonement that the LORD Jesus secured on the cross to save them Don't have that Atonement..

His Atonement Must be trusted in for one to have it cover them..

Runningman · Jan 20, 2021

Salvation through the gospel of Christ is more important than theology and doctrines.

For example, in Romans 15:20 Paul says "20Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:"

Meaning that Paul's strategy was to prioritize teaching the gospel of Christ where it had not been preached yet. In order to maximize the amount of non-Christian people he can talk to, he was known as the minister to the gentiles.

The goal being to get people the gospel of Christ to non-Christians by building a persuasive foundational teaching based on scriptures as the Holy Spirit spoke through him. Which included sermons and signs and wonders through the power of the Spirit of God.

So the foundation is Christ, everything else is built on top. No building can stand without a solid foundation.

What I am saying in a round about way is that it is only the gospel of Christ that shows the power of God to salvation.

Dino246 · Jan 20, 2021

Godcares said:

Whether or not a particular issue is "a salvation issue" is best determined by considering whether it is required for salvation. Can a person be saved without believing in the five points of Calvinism? Without a KJV-onlyist? Without tithing? All yes, along with a great many other things over which people vigorously debate.

If a person believes in the divinity of Jesus, His atoning death for their sin, and His resurrection, and nothing else, could that person be saved?

If yes, then why suggest that other things are required?

If no, then please explain what else is required and why.

Where Paul talks about "the whole gospel", it doesn't mean that one need understand and assent to every point in order to be saved; rather, it means that "the gospel" in its fullness is a foundational and coherent "system" of belief, word, and action that touches on every aspect of a person's life.

SophieT · Jan 20, 2021

Godcares said:

The problem with your op is that you are conflating two issues.

We know exactly what salvation is and there is no issue to go with it. There is salvation only through Christ and no amount of works will save a person and adding to salvation is rejected in scripture.

Your question regarding obedience is separate from salvation. A person should hold these two things separate and not cloud salvation with an improper understanding of what that is.

You might think you have cleverly disguised the actual topic here, but it seems most have seen right through your leading questions.

Blik · Jan 20, 2021

Godcares said:

I agree, this is a big issue and we need to clarify it.

When we study the ways of the earliest Christian churches, we find that love for each other, including acceptance of each other, was greater than we have in our churches today. They accepted differences in doctrine that we make an issue of.

One issue we have is the Sabbath day. In Romans 14:5 One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes a special day does so to the Lord; he who eats does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Paul and Barnabas spoke to James about this in Acts 15. The Jews were demanding that all who accepted the one true God accepted all the commands given to Moses like circumcision. It was decided that the gentiles were not obligated to keep these commandments. Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

However, scripture does not tell us what was a yoke and what was to be obeyed. We know that fleshly circumcision and diet was included because scripture points these things out. God purified the heart by faith.

It seems to me that the true commandments of the Lord, and not those commandments that only act as schoolmasters to teach about the law like circumcision and diet can be sorted out by knowing true law is love.

p_rehbein · Jan 20, 2021

Godcares said:

Spiritual baptism is. Do you understand the difference between the baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism? If so, you should not have to ask me that question.

Not a Salvation Issue / Not Required for Salvation

Banned

Senior Member

Well-known member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

pottersclay

Guest

Senior Member

Active member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

SophieT

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member