Not a Salvation Issue / Not Required for Salvation

I do not want to discourage you, but at the same time we cannot ignore what the bible says. The following bible verse implies that it is not easy to get saved.

1 Peter 4:18 - “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

And there is also Philippians 2:12 that says, “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

Why are looking at Calvinism to determine what is required for salvation instead of the bible? And what does the KJV version have to do with salvation?

Furthermore, your response is very vague and actually does not answer the questions about the examples that I made. Instead you answered my questions with questions.

You should have either said say Yes, it does affect your salvation or No, it does not affect your salvation and provided a reason for either saying Yes or No. Then if you had said No, you should have said whether it mattered to God whether or not it was obeyed.
The other alternative is to say that you are not certain whether it will affect your salvation or not.

The reason why you think that I am cleverly disguising the actual topic is because you do not know answer to the questions. If you do not know the answer, they will be difficult questions to answer and you will construe that there is something underhanded about them.

The bible tells us to do a lot of things, but for some subjects it does not clearly define whether or not it can affect our salvation. And I believe that because of this ambiguity, Christians use it as an opportunity to dismiss the obedience of certain things by simply saying “this is not a salvation issue”.

Firstly, Mark 16:16 says "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved…” It does not specify whether it is baptism of the Holy Spirit or water baptism.

Secondly, you said that giving to the poor and baptism and how much we eat relates to sanctification and justification and are not related to salvation. However, salvation and sanctification go together.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says:
“But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth”

So far no one has been able answer the questions that I posted about and I suspect that it is because no one actually knows the answer although the phrase “that this is not a salvation issue” is a common phrase used among many Christians. If you have concluded that something is not a salvation issue, how did you come to that conclusion?

I even gave examples of some of things that some Christians say are not a salvation issues and no one has been able to answer me.

This tells me that no one knows for certain that a certain subject is not a salvation issue although the phrase is commonly used.

Therefore Christians should stop saying this phrase.

Really? A correct soteriology is critical to a genuine salvation experience. Religious elements are not critical elements in a genuine salvation experience.

The essential things are just the base for the Christian. From a correct biblical knowledge of Christ we progress toward sanctification through bible study and prayer.

Romans 10:9-10 We are admonished to align our thinking with all that the bible teaches of Christ. We do not need to have a complete knowledge of all the bible teaches on Christ to be saved but we will receive all those things as we grow and mature in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I mentioned them because some people think that they are salvation issues, which they aren't.

Give a man a fish, and he will eat today; teach the man to fish, and he will eat every day.

Actually from what I have seen you were given many great answers, it cannot be helped you dismissed them. How I personally understand if something is a salvation issue or not is simple the holy spirit it is not an awe inspiring answer but it is mine.

We can discern when something in the Bible is a salvation issue when it is stated as such. Here are some examples:

False Teachers
"Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some."

These two men were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place. And because of this Paul said that it was godless chatter and that they had wandered from the truth. Therefore, anyone today who is teaching that the resurrection has already taken place have also wandered from the truth. And just fyi, since it states that they had [departed from the truth] it would infer that they were once in the truth.

Altering the book of Revelation
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll."

The above is self explanatory in that, if anyone adds to or takes away from (alters) the information written in the book of Revelation, then the stated consequences will be upon the person who does this. You can be certain that if a persons share in the tree of life and the Holy City, is taken away, this infers that they will not be there to enjoy it and there is only one other place they left for them.

Unforgiveness towards fellow believers
"Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

That is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”

So, according to the scripture above, not having a forgiving heart towards other believers for their sins against us, could keep us from receiving God's forgiveness for our sins against Him.

Discrediting Paul's teaching, which he received from the Lord
"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, [to their own destruction].

As there were during the apostles time, we still have groups of people today who consider and teach that Paul was a false apostle, not recognizing the scriptures that he wrote, which he received directly from the Lord, distorting them and that to their own destruction. By distorting what Paul was teaching, they are basically distorting the word of God.

Though there are more, these are just a few examples that could be salvation issues. However, just as with all sin, if we repent of it (change our mind and turn from it) one can be forgiven. For scripture states that "when we sin, if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

So to answer your question of "How do you know if something in the bible is a salvation issue?" It is where you find it stated in scripture, as in the examples above.

Seems to me that you have to keep yourself in the faith because that’s what is saving you.

And who are you? You are just one more person trying to do a bait and switch with the truth

The Bible, which I happen to believe, tells me you are not preaching the gospel.

To be saved we only need to want to live a sinless life. We cannot do that unless we are forgiven of our sins through Christ, knowing Christ is able to do that. That is all that is required. It is salvation through faith.

We are given many ways to live after we are saved. Our salvation means that we have Christ in our hearts and minds. We then look to these things that are of Christ, and make them part of our life. However, these things do not lead to our salvation.

That does not mean that listening to how we are to live is not part of our salvation. We cannot belief in and act on such as drunkenness as a way to live sin free. A requirement of salvation is to want to be sin free, or in scripture terms, repentance.

That's not what my Bible says. My Bible says:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

I know you mean that you need an answer based on discussions on CC and discussions between Christians coming from different denominations. I just want to tell you that I love contemplating God's word and talking about it. It's a privilege. That being said this is how I look at it.

1. As far as I understand we have the Ten commandments from the Old Testament. So if you wanted to be saved, you have to keep all ten of them. That was the salvation issue back then. Those who fail in any one of the 10 commandments were believed to be out of God's saving grace after their death and even before because the Bible shows us that God did avenge Himself on those who failed to keep the commandments during their lifetime. That didn't necessarily mean that He condemned them forever. He wanted them to reach out to Him by chastising them for their sin and He did it during their lifetime. Although God's chosen people proved time and time again that they were hard of heart and stuck stubbornly to their sins and breaking God's commands.

So, God knowing that mankind needed a Saviour sent His son Jesus by the birth of a virgin to save us from Sin (As promised through the prophets). Jesus was conceived without sinfulness. He died for our sins and rose from the dead conquering death. He has sent His Holy Spirit as promised to help us with our daily lives as Christians and to have faith in Him. We believe all this as Christians. If we don't believe all this, then it becomes a Salvation issue for us right where we don't believe in all this.

For we are saved by the "Grace of God" and we are redeemed by the sacrifice Christ made for us on the cross. So, even if we have sinned and broken any of the 10 commandments, God will forgive for the sake of Christ's sacrifice provided we had done it without knowledge that it was a sin. If we do it knowingly, which most Christians do, then we will be judged by God for our sins. Unless we repent and completely stay away from the sins we had committed. Unless we don't revisit our sins and stubbornly go down the path of sin, we will be saved. Meaning, we cannot turn back to a sinful life once we have been saved by Jesus and abandon God. And we cannot hold God in one hand and commit our sins with the other. That's backstabbing and being unfaithful to God.

I don't think God will save someone, who after knowing what He had done for him or her, they keep doing the things as they used to do before like killing, adultery or breaking any other of the 10 commandments and keep doing what they were doing before they gained knowledge of God. God will allow them to do just that and fall out of favour with Him. And after we die, our actions will speak for ourselves before God whether we lived true Christian lives in the time that we lived on earth.

True, God can save us. We must be willing to be saved though. Which is why we start with the simplest of ways to save our lives. Daily communication with God. The medium for communication is the Bible. Of course we get help from pastors, preachers and so forth. We get help from each other. But we must be willing to put in the work for our salvation everyday. It's in our hands whether we can be saved or not. We pray to God to show us the way. Jesus is the way. And God will reveal to us what needs to be done everyday. And everyday we strive to be more Christ like in our approach towards life and living our lives. And every Christian knows that it never gets easier as the years progress. It only gets harder. That's why it's tough to be a Christian. We surrender all to God and follow Him.

2. To answer your second question:

Everything matters to God. Jesus Himself says, "Well, then, pay to the Emperor what belongs to the Emperor, and pay to God what belongs to God." - Mark 12:17. So whatever God expects from us, He expects from us. However we have the freewill to do it for God or not. And in doing or not doing for God, we do or not do for ourselves.

Because if we want something from someone, we do something for that someone when it comes to people. So, we have to do what God expects of us so that we will be saved by Him. We owe God what is due to Him. We need not be perfect but we have to at least strive to be perfect, that's what I think. One step at a time. Little by little.

And Jesus sums it up in just two sentences what we have to do.

(37 Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and the most important commandment. 39 The second most important commandment is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ 40 The whole Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets depend on these two commandments.”)

Matthew 22:37-40

If we treat everyone as we treat ourselves as an individual I think the world really would be a better place. That's just what most of us fail to do individually and collectively.

I'd say simply that there are no shortcuts to salvation.

"Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel it.
Matthew 7:13

The King will reply, 'I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these followers of mine, you did it for me!'
Matthew 25:40

The last two above verses are markers I wanted to add. The Bible is full of such important markers which lead us to salvation.

I can go on and on about stressing the importance of obeying God's word and showing examples from the Bible. Although I want to admit, to be a living example of what I am actually speaking of is the hardest thing to do and that is what Christians are called to do I guess. That's how we can be saved. By not only saving ourselves but also helping others to save themselves. That's what I try to do also in my life. That's all any of us can do. Refer to the parable of the sower so that you can understand further.

I know my answer is lengthy. I wish I could make a shorter answer for your questions. But those questions do make me think and I have to come up with a good enough answer to clear your doubts. But if this does not explain what you were looking for in the first place then I encourage you to keep looking for the answers you seek and never give up. God bless you.

Don't worry i am not discoraged by works salvation pushers trying to undermine my confidence in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..

Hello SophieT

Just because what I am saying does not suit you, it does not mean that it is a different gospel.
The purpose of the bible is to tell us the truth, and not to tell us what we want to hear. I do not believe in choosing to believe certain parts of scripture and ignoring the rest because it does not appeal to me.

Hello Adstar

I have answered you by making reference to the bible. If you choose not to believe the bible verses presented, then that is your problem not mine.

Dear Everyone

I have read all of your responses to the questions and this is my response

How do you know if something in the bible is a salvation issue?

We all know the popular bible verse which is quoted more than any bible verse about salvation which was written by the apostle Paul:

• Ephesians 2:8-9 says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

But then you have the following bible verses also written by the apostle Paul that speak about people who will be excluded and will not enter the kingdom of God.

• Ephesians 5:5 says, “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.”
• Galatians 5:21 says, “Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

The bible says all scripture is inspired by God according to 2 Timothy 3:16. Therefore since it is all inspired by God then everything needs to be examined and we cannot ignore certain parts because they are not pleasing to us.

Ephesians 2:8-9 says that we are saved by grace, but Ephesians 5:5, Galatians 5:21 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 state that there are certain people will not go to heaven.

This raises a few questions. When you read all of these bible verses written by the apostle Paul:

• Does that mean that we are saved by grace, but there are certain exceptions?
• Or does that mean that we are saved by grace, but can still lose our salvation?
• Or does that mean that we are saved by grace, but being saved does not mean an automatic ticket to heaven and that there has to be a change in your behaviour and character? In other words, are you once saved and always saved, but can still go to hell?

These are puzzling questions. I believe that it is not easy to answer these questions because the bible is not very clear. Hence I asked the question, how do you know something is a salvation issue? Christians who are quick to dismiss something as not being a salvation issue show that they have not considered the entire New Testament of the bible.

At the same time, the bible says that Jesus saves us from our sins (Matthew 1:21), but it does not say Jesus saves us from going to hell. The idea that being saved means that you will automatically go to heaven is an assumption by Christians.

If something is not a salvation issue and is not required for salvation, does that mean that it does not matter to God if it is not obeyed?

There are very few of you who directly answered this question. There are about 2 of you that gave a direct answer that it does matter to God, the rest avoided the question or gave vague answers.

Example 1

Let us look at the example of King Saul in 1 Samuel 15 to answer this question.

King Saul was instructed by God to smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and kill all the men, women, children, ox, sheep, camels and donkeys etc. But King Saul did not obey God completely and spared Agag the king of the Amalekites, and the best animals

In the Old Testament how a person got saved was found in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. King Saul’s disobedience was not a violation of any laws written in these books. Therefore it can be argued that King Saul’s disobedience was not a salvation issue.

However, although he did not break any rules/laws in the book of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy including the 10 commandments, God took King Saul’s disobedience very seriously and the consequences of King Saul’s disobedience were very great.
This act of disobedience resulted in King Saul being rejected by God as king of Israel and resulted in David being anointed as king. In Samuel 28:16 it says that the Lord departed from Saul and the Lord also became his enemy.

Example 2

Let us look at Matthew 25:31-46 to also answer this question.

We will focus on Matthew 25:41-46 that says, “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.”

When you read the entire chapter from verse 31, you will notice that salvation by grace is not considered as an excuse for neglecting those who are poor (hungry, thirsty, naked), sick and imprisoned. In fact because of this neglect, the goats are destined for hell.
They are guilty of violating what is addressed James 2:14-26 that talks about Christians who do not give to the poor and who do not care about others.
James 2:14 says, “What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?” The answer to the question is no when you look at the consequences in Matthew 25:41-46.
In Matthew 25:41-46, like in Ephesians 5:5, Galatians 5:21 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, salvation by grace is not used as an excuse for transgression and these Christians did not enter the Kingdom of God.

What the above two examples tells us is that God takes everything seriously. If it is to written in the bible (especially the New Testament), He expects Christians to obey it, whether it is a salvation issue or not.

I sometimes see in the forum a member talking about the obedience of something in the New Testament and then another member quoting Ephesians 2:8-9 or saying it is not a salvation issue to argue against them. Then you see several other members giving this second member many likes.
And I think to myself, how is that a good point that deserves likes. Yes, it is true that we are saved by grace, but if you do not do the thing that the first member has mentioned which is included in the bible, then you will not enter into the kingdom of God and will not get eternal life.

With the Christians that I have interacted with, it looks like some Christians have the mind-set of King Saul as well as Adam and Eve. Thinking that minor things do not matter and that God overlooks certain things.

What I have written is a subject that is avoided by many pastors. I have been in different churches were pastors have addressed similar issues of what I have just posted about. In the very few occasions that similar issues have been preached about, I have watched Christians storm out of churches and some of them never returned. Not because what the pastor is saying was not true, but because they do not want to hear it. Because of the reaction of some Christians of not wanting to hear these truths and having the risk of decreasing their congregation and losing tithes and offering, a lot of pastors prefer to focus on other less disagreeable subjects. What I have said is nothing new and if you are shocked by it then it means that you either do not read the bible and your pastor avoids preaching about such things or you have convinced yourself that it does not apply to you.

Most of the New Testament is clear about what God’s will is and how Christians should live. There are certain subjects that are unclear. However, it God tells us to do something and it is clear and you able to do it, then you should do it, whether it is a salvation issue or not.

There is nothing that God tells us to do that is harmful to us and therefore I do not understand why Christians are so quick to dismiss any of his instructions as if obedience will hurt us.

Furthermore God does not expect us to do anything without helping us. He knows our nature and that we are prone to sin and selfishness. When we struggle to apply His will, we should simply pray and ask Him to help us and He will. There is no reason to run away from certain subjects in the bible and use excuses such as it is not a salvation issue, or we are not saved by works or we are saved by grace only etc. as a reason for disobedience.

@justahumanbeing mentioned the narrow way. This is a good point. Matthew 7:14 says, “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

Matthew 7:14 indicates that Christianity is not easy, but we need not fear because God has promised to be with us and He will help us. (Philippians 4:6-7, 1 Corinthians 15:57, Philippians 4:13, 2 Peter 1:13, Romans 8:37, 2 Corinthians 2:14, and many more).

I believe all scriptures are inspired by God.. and accept them all. But not all those who interpret the scriptures are guided by the Holy Spirit in doing so.. And works salvation believers are unguided people..