Did mind–body dualism exist before original sin?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,809
25,988
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#21
They said something similar. It's weird that you would rather millions burn over a technicality as dust being waves.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

You are not going to wake millions with your un-Biblical views.

Nor should you be attempting to redefine sin :oops:
 
T

taylorswiftfan

Guest
#22
They said something similar. It's weird that you would rather millions burn over a technicality as dust being waves.
yes dust is made up of particles which in turn have a wave nature but that doesn't mean dust isn't physical

dust is physical

particles are physical

waves are physical

the soul is not physical
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,809
25,988
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#26
We have a soul and body today, but were we just a soul beforehand?
Man became a living soul when God breathed the breath of life into man's physical being.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed
into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 2:7

The dust of the ground was physical. In the beginning, what did God do?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Elemental. Physical.
 
J

Jeffry_Nical

Guest
#30
yes dust is made up of particles which in turn have a wave nature but that doesn't mean dust isn't physical

dust is physical

particles are physical

waves are physical

the soul is not physical
The man is led by the sensuality of his senses, so his heart is seduced by what he sees, hears, smells, tastes and feels, but the spiritual man, even being a prey of sensuality, fights against it to subdue it, because he understands that there are greater things that senses cannot perceive. Let us therefore understand that it is not what we see, nor what we hear, nor what we feel with our touch, nor what we smell, but what we do not see, nor hear, nor feel, nor what we smell; for all that we perceive and understand is of little value, and what we do not understand is of great value.

All that man knows and understands is little as a drop of water and all that he ignores is much as all the water of the oceans, and if all that we see and hear is little as a drop of water and what we do not see or hear is much as all the water of the oceans, why then do we trust and are we so sure? Why do we trust and are we so sure of our drop of water? Why do we trust and are we so sure of the insignificance that we understand, see and hear? But knowing that God knows all things (even the hidden ones) we can trust and be sure of the information and knowledge that he provides, for he does not possess a drop of water but more than all the oceans.

The material and the senses that perceive the material, make a first man to be full of great ignorance of things that are not perceived by the senses, and although man invented science to try to study and explain things that are not perceived by the senses is still as ignorant as the first man because although it comes to understand more than what the senses can perceive is based on what their devices and calculations can perceive or define and what can be measured or quantified through them, So while the first is limited by their senses the second expands their senses through science but both are similar because they are limited by what can be measured and quantified and tested but cannot investigate what cannot be measured, quantified, studied and tested, therefore both are totally ignorant of spiritual reality and even deny it foolishly thinking that if they cannot study, test and understand it, it must not exist and this becomes their foolishness to deny what their senses and science cannot investigate.
 
J

Jeffry_Nical

Guest
#31
all waves have a particle nature and all particles have a wave nature

both natures are physical

the soul has neither of these natures
Certainly, the animated things can exercise action over others, but the inanimate ones cannot, the fire in a forest will move until it consumes all the wood but a stone will not move from its place nor will it do by itself either good or bad to anything else, although the animated things can exercise action over other things, the action that they exercise is without wisdom therefore it can be destructive or vivifying depending on its action and the place. A conscious being, be it a man, an animal or an insect, has more power than animate or inanimate things, for they can exercise a certain measure of wisdom in what they do, so a spider builds a trap, a beaver a dam, and a man a house. But neither animate things nor conscious beings can create themselves;


Understand therefore that no one but a God can be able to exist by himself without someone or something making Him exist, and be sure that there is only one God, and unless there is a God nothing could exist; and if it existed, who did it? And if you say that this thing that existed did not need someone to make it exist because it was eternal and had always been there, would not be eternity the one who governs everything? For being eternal, it had no need of a beginning for it has always been there. And if this eternity exists, does it have a conscience or is it an eternity without meaning or purpose? Certainly, the animals have will, and you also have your own will, but who was the first being with self-will, and if you are intelligent, who was the first being with intelligence? Will you tell me for your confusion that the human being is the first being that developed self-will and the first being that developed intelligence? Will you tell me for your confusion that the extraterrestrials were the first beings that developed self-will and the first beings that developed intelligence? Will you reject what is obvious, so that you can deny that there had to be a first being with self-will and intelligence before any other being? Just as many things have been done by your will, so many things had to be done by the will of someone more powerful than you. When you were born, there were already houses, buildings, people and many things already done that you had not done, so when the universe was born there were already beings and things done that the universe had not created.

If we had always existed before our body's, we are eternal and then we have no need for a creator, but I know only god is eternal
 
Jan 21, 2021
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#32
Can you guys imagine what wave-particle duality would be if it was only waves? If so, you can imagine what we were before original sin.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
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#33
Can you guys imagine what wave-particle duality would be if it was only waves? If so, you can imagine what we were before original sin.
My imagine is if there only waves then we must something as waters.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,809
25,988
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#35
Remember what happened long ago, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and
there is none like Me. I declare the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what
is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.'
I summon a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far-off land. Truly
I have spoken, and truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, and I will surely do it.
 
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taylorswiftfan

Guest
#36
Can you guys imagine what wave-particle duality would be if it was only waves? If so, you can imagine what we were before original sin.
if only waves existed there would be no wave-particle duality

whenever a quantum object is observed it always shows itself to be either a wave or particle depending on the context but never both at the same time

your wave-only view is simply not true because quantum objects have shown themselves to be particles in specific contexts
 
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taylorswiftfan

Guest
#38
I said before original sin ..not right now.

Adam and Eve had physical bodies before they sinned

both waves and particles have always existed ever since God created the physical world
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#39
all waves have a particle nature and all particles have a wave nature

both natures are physical

the soul has neither of these natures
Well you have just definitively answered one of the most pressing questions of neuroscience, impressive.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
13,120
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#40
We have a soul and body today, but were we just a soul beforehand?

the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(Genesis 2:7, kjv)