REASONS THE CHURCH IN AMERICA IS GETTING IT WRONG - ADD YOUR REASONS

The Bible teach us differently

I think the attitude of complaining and criticism and seeking to find ways to put down the church. There's this false belief that it is somehow a sign of spiritual maturity to find and focus on flaws and problems and to gossip about it. Or even use it as a justification for attacks against others. Then rally together to feel important discussing them.

Criticism comes naturally. It takes no gift, no genius, no biblical literacy.

Ones personal experience is usually too limited to paint the majority of churches in American with a broad brush.

Celebrity pastors, TV churches, or famous worship bands are not the condition of the churches in America and to think so is not very scientific.

There are thousands of churches in America that are "healthy" biblical models of New Testament churches being lead by the Holy Spirit and fulfilling the purposes of God in their local communities.

I suggest Googling the Spirit filled churches in your area and visiting them one by one until you discover the truth that they are not as bad as you have allowed yourself to conclude.

And regardless of whether they did it exactly the same in the first churches, I am sure they cried out to God in faith and worshipped at the feet of Jesus with tears and repentance when they felt so moved and an altar call or "a prayer of commitment and calling upon the Lord" happened whether they stood up shoulder to shoulder in a small area and there was no room for "coming forward" or whether they went to different areas of the room, who knows? you were not there, it is not recorded exactly what they did. And the reason it was not recorded is probably so that people would not get legalistic and demand that it be done exactly that way. We know that in one example that the whole place was shaken when they prayed!

How about instead of criticizing the origins of the "altar call" we should realize that the intention of taking time to pray and call upon the Lord is a scriptural principle that we are following and there is great benefit in helping the people to take the time to call upon the Lord in faith. Whether it was a message that was preached about giving your life to Jesus for the first time or a message about walking in love toward your brother and sisters, taking the time to pray for a while and ask the Lord to help you to hear what He is saying to you and waiting upon the Lord is a biblical concept. It is so very needful. It helps people to combat the strategy of the enemy that would try to distract them with other things that demand their attention after they leave the assembly. If that is a device of the enemy why not have a remedy to combat it such as a calling upon the Lord (call it "altar call" or "seek the face of God" time, call it whatever you like, what you call it is not nearly as important as doing it)

If you are an Overseer of a thousand churches for 30 years you have authority and experience to identify what is wrong with, or needs to be improved with those churches. Otherwise I would suggest resisting being critical of anything other then what you have intimate knowledge of.

Even making judgments about a pastors income is so often nothing but sinful false accusations. My experience has been that almost every criticism of a pastors income has been based on extreme ignorance. Judgments are made without facts, such as the kind of car he drives, or the house he lives in. No consideration is given for how many years of his life he has saved money or been financially wise by saving 15% of every paycheck of a moderate salary over 30 years invested in mutual funds and created wealth with the principle of compound interest.

Many people ignorant of basic financial investment principles and who are actually guilty of financial irresponsibility themselves make false accusations about pastors fleecing the flock to afford their wealthily lifestyles and they are going to be corrected by the Lord one day and made ashamed of their sinful mouth pollution.

Did you know that over thirty or forty years of investing 15% of every check in a 401K mutual fund mix you could realistically accumulate 2 million to 4 million in retirement funds? A realistic conservative expectation of 10% annually on that fund would yield 300,000 a year to live on without touching the principle. What if a pastor saving 15% of his check and investing it in a either a self employed tax deferred retirement account of a mix of low risk mutual funds (or one that is set up by his denomination for pastors) and after 30 years he had reached the age allowed by law to begin to withdraw without penalties (65) and was living on 200,000 a year? How easy it is for people to gossip and talk about how much the pastor and his wife make each year and yet the information about where the money comes from is conveniently missing and accusations of fleecing the flock are thrown about by disgruntled members who leave and spread false rumors.

This happens more than you may realize. People assume things about where the pastors money comes from that is nothing but assumptions. Is it the pastors job to constantly explain to people how he created his wealth over 30 years of financial planning? No.

I have heard people make false accusations about how much a pastor is using from tithes and offerings to live on because of appearance only, when the facts were that the pastors wife was wealthy dentist or had some other lucrative career that they were not aware of. They should be ashamed of their gossip but they rarely repent when they find out they have been sowing discord among the brethren.

People are dumb. They criticize a pastor who has been pastoring for 30 years about the level of wealth he might have achieved not understanding that they could have done the same in 30 years working at Walmart or McDonalds. It is called savings and investing and wouldn't you want a pastor to be an example of such financial responsibility demonstrating what he would teach the members to do even if they work at McDonalds?

Get a Dave Ramsey financial planning guide and stop criticizing pastors who are good role models of financial responsibility.

What is wrong with the church in America? People who have an opinion on what is wrong with the church who don't even go to church!

Dumb post. I was thinking of deleting it, but fell asleep. Thanks for your comments!

It is not a dumb post, I think the holy spirit guided you to it.

I am reading a history of the 15th and 16th century. There were countless murders committed in the name of the church, yet they read the very same bible we read today. Millions of Christians killed other Christians over dogma, and they were sure they were right to do that. It is not dumb to look at ourselves carefully to see if we are doing the will of the Lord. I wonder if there were Christians then who knew it was murder, not upholding the church. They had the same ability to think that we have today, it tells us we must pray and use our minds.

were they Christians, or were they Catholics ?

The church in America has changed or dismantled many of the old ways. They now offer circus shows and entertainment venues costing hundreds-of-thousands to stage, have centralized power into one man, disseminate political speech from the pulpit, adopted a "business model for growth", yoked with unbelievers, etc. What does the church in America need to change from wrong to right to be pleasing in God's eyes and for building up the Saints?


Firstly, the "altar call" and "reciting the sinner's prayer", as methods to bestow the gift of salvation by God needs to go. That's a lie.


A man in his natural state cannot choose God. God must first choose the person and place His Spirit in them before they can understand their sinful condition, need for repentance and a savior. So the church begins to get a sizable group of people who met God on their own terms, did not have His Spirit when they made a "confession of faith", and began living a life based on following the other church members and the Bible (which the carnal mind can't understand) and assume a nice moral existence, probably feeling real good about their goodness.

Secondly, the sermons and teachings must now be kept at the lowest common denominator, to make sure the new "converts" and always arriving un-regenerated folks, don't get scared away from the pew with anything too dramatic from God's Word, like one has to die to self daily, or the necessity to face persecution or defamation for following or speaking God's truth at all times. What happens to the actual called by God, where is their growth addressed? (I could write for pages on separating the men from the women, and the joke "women's bible studies" have become - the first object thrown out was the bible, But I digress).

As the parable of the wedding feast conveys, it's not just the invitation that was extended; it's the wedding garments on the inside (that only God can see), that makes one worthy to attend the ceremony. These clothes can only come through sanctification resulting from a lifetime of obedience to, and fellowship with, Jesus Christ. This is the main purpose of the church, to promote the sanctification of its members and present them worthy when they come before Christ.


None of us can know for sure who is a real follower of Christ, therefore, go full speed ahead, maturing in the height and depth of teaching, and let the new people catch up. If they have the Spirit of God, they will.

Mainly Protestant and Catholics. Queen Elisabeth let them both live.

were they Christians, or were they Catholics ?

I suppose it depends if one considers Calvinists or the church of England, Christians. Don't forget phoney baloney witch burnings too.

so no Christians then.

so no Christians then.

The church in America has changed or dismantled many of the old ways. They now offer circus shows and entertainment venues costing hundreds-of-thousands to stage, have centralized power into one man, disseminate political speech from the pulpit, adopted a "business model for growth", yoked with unbelievers, etc. What does the church in America need to change from wrong to right to be pleasing in God's eyes and for building up the Saints?


Firstly, the "altar call" and "reciting the sinner's prayer", as methods to bestow the gift of salvation by God needs to go. That's a lie.


A man in his natural state cannot choose God. God must first choose the person and place His Spirit in them before they can understand their sinful condition, need for repentance and a savior. So the church begins to get a sizable group of people who met God on their own terms, did not have His Spirit when they made a "confession of faith", and began living a life based on following the other church members and the Bible (which the carnal mind can't understand) and assume a nice moral existence, probably feeling real good about their goodness.

Secondly, the sermons and teachings must now be kept at the lowest common denominator, to make sure the new "converts" and always arriving un-regenerated folks, don't get scared away from the pew with anything too dramatic from God's Word, like one has to die to self daily, or the necessity to face persecution or defamation for following or speaking God's truth at all times. What happens to the actual called by God, where is their growth addressed? (I could write for pages on separating the men from the women, and the joke "women's bible studies" have become - the first object thrown out was the bible, But I digress).

As the parable of the wedding feast conveys, it's not just the invitation that was extended; it's the wedding garments on the inside (that only God can see), that makes one worthy to attend the ceremony. These clothes can only come through sanctification resulting from a lifetime of obedience to, and fellowship with, Jesus Christ. This is the main purpose of the church, to promote the sanctification of its members and present them worthy when they come before Christ.


None of us can know for sure who is a real follower of Christ, therefore, go full speed ahead, maturing in the height and depth of teaching, and let the new people catch up. If they have the Spirit of God, they will.

Unless you have been in every church, You have no grounds for what you have stated and needs to just shut up.

I suppose it depends if one considers Calvinists or the church of England, Christians. Don't forget phoney baloney witch burnings too.

I suppose it depends if one considers Calvinists or the church of England, Christians. Don't forget phoney baloney witch burnings too.

Christianity is on the decline in America. There are reasons, many of them are the fault of the church. Yes in general, the church is failing. So maybe pull your head out of the sand.