Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

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You have not ever honestly looked at rev 14.
On the contrary, I gave you a color coded explanation of the v.17-19 that shows that the "gathering" has NOTHING to do with saved people.

But then again,it would destroy your deal as I have shown.
You've shown a terrible misunderstanding of ch 14.
 
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""So, those who think that the "gathering" in Rev 14 refers to some rapture, then the raptured grapes are thrown into the "great winepress of God's wrath.""

Lol
Those thrown in the winepress are OVER RIPE.
ROTTEN.
Gathered by angels... Not Jesus.

See that's the thing...you can not unpack a no brainier.

You MUST reframe it...literally REINVENT IT to save face of how I just took out your entire postrib rapture workbook
Instead of these childish retorts, please explain in clear words what you think the "gathering" in Rev 14 refers to. I still have no idea what you think the chapter is about.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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Instead of these childish retorts, please explain in clear words what you think the "gathering" in Rev 14 refers to. I still have no idea what you think the chapter is about.
Revelation 14:14-20 is nothing more than the last day resurrection and final judgement of all, as Matthew 13:37-43 is a parallel teaching in greater explanation

The claims of a Pre-Trib rapture is "Laughable"

Matthew 13:37-43KJV

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Lazarus died the first death and was resurrected back to mortal life. While it's a different resurrection than the one of the future, it was still a resurrection.
so Lazarus could actually die a third death ?

dead be raised , die again and be raised again and then face the second death again possibly ?

I’m not sure what happened with Lazarus after he was raised except for he was spotted at a dinner later and was a believer, Honestly that’s all I’ve learned from scripture about what happened after Lazarus was raised from the dead

“Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s as far as I know about Lazarus after his resurrection I know a man who was certainly dead for days was now alive for certain and eating a meal with the Lord

and I know Jesus was also raised from the dead or “ resurrected”

“And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:29-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

same as Lazarus
 
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Revelation 14:14-20 is nothing more than the last day resurrection and final judgement of all, as Matthew 13:37-43 is a parallel teaching in greater explanation
Ridiculous. It's a summary of what's coming.

The claims of a Pre-Trib rapture is "Laughable"
It is, because the Bible doesn't teach that.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Ridiculous. It's a summary of what's coming.


It is, because the Bible doesn't teach that.
Revelation 14:14-20 is nothing more than the last day resurrection and final judgement of all, as Matthew 13:37-43 is a parallel teaching in greater explanation

The claims of a Pre-Trib rapture is "Laughable"

Matthew 13:37-43KJV
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
that final judgement is what Jesus was talking about here

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

there’s another group who doesn’t have to face the condemnation of the final judgement because they already heard his word and believed and died with him Through baptism for their sins . This group who heard his word and believed and escaped the condemnation the dead face I. The end those who are made alive by the spirit now and go to be with him until the restoration of all things new

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

that death we escape by belief is the second death , we all die the first death of the flesh , but can escape the final judgement of we accept it now and believe

Rather than Being among the dead in the grave who are judged without mercy for thier deeds , we can be alive in Christ and the mercy of God available to believers
 
T

TheWaytoGo

Guest
Brother, Christ does not return until after the 7th bowl judgment. The following is what the Lord interjects after the 6th bowl has been poured out:

“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who remains awake and clothed, so that he will not go naked and let his shame be exposed.”

If He is saying that He 'comes like a thief after the 6th bowl has been poured out, it would infer that the Lord has not yet returned by the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

Mat.24:29-30 are referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, not the gathering of the church. It's referring to those believers on the earth who will have made it alive through the entire tribulation period.

Some believe He was speaking to the soldiers aligned against Him for the Battle of Armageddon, and warning them not to get caught without their weapons in hand, or asleep at their posts waiting for Him to attack.
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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Some believe He was speaking to the soldiers aligned against Him for the Battle of Armageddon, and warning them not to get caught without their weapons in hand, or asleep at their posts waiting for Him to attack.
Hello!

If you are speaking in regards to Jesus' insertion in red above, what you posted would not be supported by this. There is just nothing in that verse that would support your post above. If you look at the context, it is a warning to those righteous on the earth at that time to remain awake and clothed, that being figurative to keep themselves pure and watching for the Lord's return. Although, I have wondered also if it is warning to the reader to always be watching and keeping oneself from the sinful nature so that they do not enter into that time period of God's wrath.

In regards to when the Lord comes down from heaven and the church with Him, there are no weapons mentioned, nor would we need them. For we would all be in our immortal and glorified bodies which will have have power. That said, I'm sure that there won't be much of a battle with the immortal against mortal.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Jerusalem is the Whore, Mystery Babaylon the Great, Not Rome as Many falsely teach, Jerusalem is likened to Sodom and Egypt Rev 11:8

There will be no restoration of a Jewish Israel, this earth is dissolved by fire at the second coming of Jesus Christ, "GONE"
The teaching of a 1,000 year Millennial on this earth, where Jews rule is a man made fairy tale
There are THOUSANDS other similar Scriptures pertaining to the restoration of Jerusalem at the end of the age. There is no stronger doctrine than the restoration of Israel and Jerusalem in a renewed earthly Kingdom under the direct rulership of the now bodily resurrected Lord Jesus Messiah. Any Christian who chooses to deny the redemption of Israel and Jerusalem is extremely disturbing.

In this we rejoice. We rejoice in all of Gods redemptive work. The Redemption is greatest and most glorious work of God in all of eternity past present and future. We pray for Israel and Jerusalem continually. As we also pray for all the gentiles who need to be redeemed in this fallen world.

Isa 52
52:6: Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
52:7: How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
52:8: Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.
52:9: Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
52:10: The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
 

Truth7t7

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There are THOUSANDS other similar Scriptures pertaining to the restoration of Jerusalem at the end of the age. There is no stronger doctrine than the restoration of Israel and Jerusalem in a renewed earthly Kingdom under the direct rulership of the now bodily resurrected Lord Jesus Messiah. Any Christian who chooses to deny the redemption of Israel and Jerusalem is extremely disturbing.

In this we rejoice. We rejoice in all of Gods redemptive work. The Redemption is greatest and most glorious work of God in all of eternity past present and future. We pray for Israel and Jerusalem continually. As we also pray for all the gentiles who need to be redeemed in this fallen world.

Isa 52
52:6: Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
52:7: How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
52:8: Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.
52:9: Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
52:10: The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
Restoration Of National Jerusalem On This Earth?

Jesus Is Gonna Redeem The Earth, By (Fire)!

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved
, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God
, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

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Dec 20, 2017
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There are THOUSANDS other similar Scriptures pertaining to the restoration of Jerusalem at the end of the age. There is no stronger doctrine than the restoration of Israel and Jerusalem in a renewed earthly Kingdom under the direct rulership of the now bodily resurrected Lord Jesus Messiah. Any Christian who chooses to deny the redemption of Israel and Jerusalem is extremely disturbing.

In this we rejoice. We rejoice in all of Gods redemptive work. The Redemption is greatest and most glorious work of God in all of eternity past present and future. We pray for Israel and Jerusalem continually. As we also pray for all the gentiles who need to be redeemed in this fallen world.

Isa 52
52:6: Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
52:7: How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
52:8: Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.
52:9: Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
52:10: The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
I believe it's part of The Gospel. "This Gospel of The Kingdom". Jesus paid for this earth with his blood.
Perhaps some churches don't teach very much on it but I find it quite difficult to avoid.

Isaiah 2
This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:

2 In the last days

the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.
3 Many peoples will come and say,

‘Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.’
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into ploughshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war any more.
5 Come, descendants of Jacob,
let us walk in the light of the Lord.

 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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I believe it's part of The Gospel. "This Gospel of The Kingdom". Jesus paid for this earth with his blood.
Perhaps some churches don't teach very much on it but I find it quite difficult to avoid.

Isaiah 2
This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:


2 In the last days

the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.
3 Many peoples will come and say,


‘Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.’
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into ploughshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war any more.
5 Come, descendants of Jacob,
let us walk in the light of the Lord.
All Nations Will Go Up To Mount Zion, and walk in its light!

(AFTER THE DAY OF THE LORD TAKES PLACE)

You dont want to read the entire chapter in context, because it shows mans breath is removed from his nostrils, just as it was given in the beginning (The End) of mortal, human existence!

Revelation 21:23-24KJV
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

(The Day Of The Lord)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

(The Day Of The Lord)

Isaiah 2:10-12 & 22KJV
10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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On the contrary, I gave you a color coded explanation of the v.17-19 that shows that the "gathering" has NOTHING to do with saved people.


You've shown a terrible misunderstanding of ch 14.
tell me what it is
 
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Instead of these childish retorts, please explain in clear words what you think the "gathering" in Rev 14 refers to. I still have no idea what you think the chapter is about.
please forgive the childish verses i posted and tell me the correct interpretation of rev 14.

i will wait.
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
Rather, you are simply too confused to understand what the Bible says. Apparently you think Rev 14:18's "gathering" is a rapture. Not.even.close.

Rather, it should be. The meaning of that word in EACH verse requires some context to understand what it means.

Gen 31:46 - He said to his relatives, “Gather some stones.” So they took stones and piled them in a heap, and they ate there by the heap.
Gen 49:1 - Then Jacob called for his sons and said: “Gather around so I can tell you what will happen to you in days to come.
Ex 5:7 - “You are no longer to supply the people with straw for making bricks; let them go and gather their own straw.
Ex 16:4 - Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions.

OK, with these verses, we see what can be "gathered": sones, sons, straw, bread. OK?

Now, Rev 14:18,19
18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.

OK, so what' being "gathered" in Rev 14? Stones? Sons? Straw? Or bread? Nope. Grapes.

Now, the red words tells us exactly what is to be gathered. The blue words explain WHY they are to be gathered.

Now, some will conveniently ignored v.19, which is sad, because v.19 explains WHERE the "gathered" grapes go.

So, those who think that the "gathering" in Rev 14 refers to some rapture, then the raptured grapes are thrown into the "great winepress of God's wrath.

So, is that what you think of the "rapture"? That it's a way for God to pour out His wrath on His raptured saints????

L.O.L.
never ever said it was the rapture. you falsely ascribed it .

then you combined 2 gatherings into one.

vs 15 is Jesus gathering ripe fruit

vs 18 is an angel gathering over ripe fruit.

you did not see that?????
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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never ever said it was the rapture. you falsely ascribed it .

then you combined 2 gatherings into one.

vs 15 is Jesus gathering ripe fruit

vs 18 is an angel gathering over ripe fruit.

you did not see that?????
You act as if you have some new found wisdom, or a secret interpretation revealed in scripture?

Revelation 14:14-20 below, is nothing more than the last day resurrection and final judgement, the first reaping are the saved, the second the wicked, it's that "Simple"

Matthew 13:36-43 below, gives a detailed explanation of the reaping of the Angel's, a 3rd grade sunday school teaching.

Revelation 1414-20KJV

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Matthew 13:36-43KJV
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 
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Your favourite chapter ! ;)

Can you tell me, do you see this chapter as being chronologically placed in the Revelation?
Before the seven plagues?
just that it is before the end of the trib and the 144k are gathered as firstfruits which automatically involves main harvest.
rev 14 is neither the rapture or the second coming
the gathering is Jewish because the 144k are firstfruit Jews.
Jacobs trouble is Israels trouble.
the gt is the stage where God deals with the covenant Jews. (Israel)

the ac kills all who refuse the mark. The Jews are ushered into protection with the devil in pursuit.

the flying scorpions are commanded not to hurt the 144k messianic jews (which are already sealed by being born again,but in need of sealing against the scorpions.)

here is the heart of the matter: the entire end times is begun by the rapture and the advent of the ac.
this is test fit.
anything else and the business in heaven is bypassed and we lose the connectability of the dots.
end times is not a "trib/wrath/second coming" dynamic.
it is the gathering of the 2 groups for business in heaven.
the trib is like the flood of Noah's day. Noah was high into the heavens via the ark while the horror was below him.
we also will be high above the horror of the Judgement of God during the gt.

the gathering of the Jewish ripe fruit of rev 14;15 is the declaration at the first miracle of Jesus ...it was at a wedding ,it had to dowith grapes (wine) and the declaration was "but you saved the best wine for last"

that is the Jews. they come to the wedding in heaven LAST. the best for last.

IOW, the first miracle by Jesus HAD TO BE AT A WEDDING and involve grapes.

without the Jew there is no christianity. (ruth came in through naomi)

without ruth naomi could not regain inheritance.
both came in through boaz.

the depth of end times is hidden.
Framing it around the gt is like going to a bible class where the ot is never studied.
you can "get there" but it is so very lacking in depth.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I believe it's part of The Gospel. "This Gospel of The Kingdom". Jesus paid for this earth with his blood.
Perhaps some churches don't teach very much on it but I find it quite difficult to avoid.

Isaiah 2
This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:


2 In the last days

the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.
3 Many peoples will come and say,


‘Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.’
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into ploughshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war any more.
5 Come, descendants of Jacob,
let us walk in the light of the Lord.