The Books of Enoch.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Would the book of Enoch enhance one's spiritual understanding, or cause confusion questions?

  • A) help

    Votes: 7 35.0%
  • B) Add Confusion

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • C) There's a reason God kept it out of the Bible

    Votes: 13 65.0%

  • Total voters
    20

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,773
1,548
113
#41
The same can be said about anyone who rejects the huge amount of information that refutes Enoch authenticity. "Fingers in the ears syndrome. " It is like the desire to believe a fantastic childishly made up Greek Myth story is so great that the entertainment motivation takes over their ability to hear truth. It is a disease that effects other areas of their life. Ignoring the authorial intent of the holy people compromising with the unholy people and the judgment that will ensue, they live in all sorts of ungodliness while obsessing over giants and angels having sex.

If they gave up that interpretation and recognized the real message they might repent of the compromise that is in their lives right now. They might get off those dating sites and quit thinking it is ok to missionary date.

http://www.zephaniah.eu/index_htm_files/The Book of Enoch is a Dangerous Demonic Snare.pdf

Who is Jeremy James ? http://www.zephaniah.eu/index_htm_files/Biographical Note.pdf
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,825
8,598
113
#42
The same can be said about anyone who rejects the huge amount of information that refutes Enoch authenticity. "Fingers in the ears syndrome. " It is like the desire to believe a fantastic childishly made up Greek Myth story is so great that the entertainment motivation takes over their ability to hear truth. It is a disease that effects other areas of their life. Ignoring the authorial intent of the holy people compromising with the unholy people and the judgment that will ensue, they live in all sorts of ungodliness while obsessing over giants and angels having sex.

If they gave up that interpretation and recognized the real message they might repent of the compromise that is in their lives right now. They might get off those dating sites and quit thinking it is ok to missionary date.

http://www.zephaniah.eu/index_htm_files/The Book of Enoch is a Dangerous Demonic Snare.pdf
I’m not even talking about Enoch. The 66 has more than enough proof. Where did I quote Enoch ?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,825
8,598
113
#43
Believe or don't believe. Does not change the truth that angels did in fact leave their first estate and procreate with human women.

There are different things in scripture people are not comfortable with and this appears to be one of them.
The funny thing is the It’s reverse! The Greek mythology comes from the truth of Genesis 6.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#44
A few thoughts about Enoch.
1.He lived before the flood and so it is unlikely his writings went on the ark and was preserved 4000 years up to the time of Jude.
2. Noah heard directly from God and was not dependent on Enoch as someone previously mentioned.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#45
Believe or don't believe. Does not change the truth that angels did in fact leave their first estate and procreate with human women.

There are different things in scripture people are not comfortable with and this appears to be one of them.
Not comfortable? LOL... Yeah, there is not one instance anywhere in the Bible where angels took the form of men aside from doing the express will of God. Add to that the fact that kind reproduce after kind, and angels apparently do not reproduce, as well as the fat that it is nowhere stated in Scripture they they can or do. Sons of God reproducing with the daughters of men? Mmm hmmm! God's Word is clear front to back: the Godly should not intermarry with the ungodly. Corruption always ensues... and even the wisest man in the world fell prey to it.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#46
Read them. They won't confuse you they will make you laugh. You will know they are not inspired.

Google and you will find plenty of scholarly presentations about their origins and history and what ancient Jews thought about them.
Fact: Enoch was apart of the scriptures up to the 4th century, when there was a stigma between whether to keep the books of Enoch or Revelation. Revelation won out and Enoch fell out of circulation. They should have kept both

Fact: Jude quoted from Enoch calling it a prophecy. - Jude 1:14. That should do away with any concerns as to whether it was inspired or not.

Fact: Enoch sheds much light on Genesis 6:1-2 with a more detailed account and gives us a better understanding as to the reason for the flood.

I have my own copy of Ethiopic Enoch and Regardless of what anyone else thinks, it is inspired to me and I believe that the Spirit also confirms this with my spirit.

Therefore, everyone can reject it if they desire, but my mind and spirit won't be dissuaded.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#48
Fact: Enoch was apart of the scriptures up to the 4th century, when there was a stigma between whether to keep the books of Enoch or Revelation. Revelation won out and Enoch fell out of circulation. They should have kept both

Fact: Jude quoted from Enoch calling it a prophecy. - Jude 1:14. That should do away with any concerns as to whether it was inspired or not.

Fact: Enoch sheds much light on Genesis 6:1-2 with a more detailed account and gives us a better understanding as to the reason for the flood.

I have my own copy of Ethiopic Enoch and Regardless of what anyone else thinks, it is inspired to me and I believe that the Spirit also confirms this with my spirit.

Therefore, everyone can reject it if they desire, but my mind and spirit won't be dissuaded.
It contradicts scripture. So it can't be inspired.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#49
It’s really one of the strangest things I’ve encountered. People actually are offended and angry by simply presenting the Biblical evidence on this. Why?

And the evidence is vast. Every year or so this comes up, and I’ve learned more each time. I’ll present all the Biblical evidence I’ve come across later.

But I truly can’t see how anyone can deny what the text says.

It reminds me of when we were kids and you told someone a truth they didn’t like, they’d stick their fingers in their ears and yell “lalalala!”.

A huge chunk of Scripture won’t make sense unless we get this right.
There Is No Biblical Evidence, Because It Doesn't Exist.

Once again, plain, simple, easy to understand, read it real slow :)

The Sons Of God were human men, that married human women

Teaching Angels have sex with human women, and maintaining human sperm is a fairytale in mythology, and false teaching.

Genesis 6:1-6KJV
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

"The Sons of God" took wives, Angel's don't marry humans, it's that simple.

Matthew 22:30KJV
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#50
Believe or don't believe. Does not change the truth that angels did in fact leave their first estate and procreate with human women.

There are different things in scripture people are not comfortable with and this appears to be one of them.
Your claim is false, those Angel's that were cast out of heaven (devils) dont maintain physical human bodies, but possess humans and animals spiritually.

The New Testament is packed full of this factual truth, Mark 5:1-13 the possessed man and the herd of swine, Mark 16:9 Mary Magdalene being just a few examples.

Mark 1:34KJV
34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

Once again, plain, simple, easy to understand, read it real slow :)

The Sons Of God were human men, that married human women

Teaching Angels have sex with human women, and maintaining human sperm is a fairytale in mythology, and false teaching.

Genesis 6:1-6KJV
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

"The Sons of God" took wives, Angel's don't marry humans, it's that simple.

Matthew 22:30KJV
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#51
Fact: Enoch was apart of the scriptures up to the 4th century, when there was a stigma between whether to keep the books of Enoch or Revelation.
A minor point, but worth noting as you proofread...

The word "apart" means "separate from", while "a part" means "not separate from". It's worth ensuring you have a space where your intent requires one.

Yes, in some things, English is goofy. :)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#52
How do you know Jude was quoting the Pseudopigrapha called Enoch or was he speaking under Divine inspiration quoting what Enoch had said?
Because the quote is right in scripture and Jude called it prophecy from Enoch.

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#53
Your claim is false, those Angel's that were cast out of heaven (devils) dont maintain physical human bodies, but possess humans spiritually.

The New Testament is packed full of this factual truth, Mark 5:1-13 the possessed man and the herd of swine, Mark 16:9 Mary Magdalene being just a few examples.

Once again, plain, simple, easy to understand, read it real slow :)

The Sons Of God were human men, that married human women

Teaching Angels have sex with human women, and maintaining human sperm is a fairytale in mythology, and false teaching.

Genesis 6:1-6KJV
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

"The Sons of God" took wives, Angel's don't marry humans, it's that simple.

Matthew 22:30KJV
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Your entire argument is based on your own speculation, and you are engaging in a fallacious argument from silence. Your claims aren't clearly backed up with Scripture.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,162
2,380
113
#54
A minor point, but worth noting as you proofread...

The word "apart" means "separate from", while "a part" means "not separate from". It's worth ensuring you have a space where your intent requires one.

Yes, in some things, English is goofy. :)
Yeah, that's just a matter of not hitting the space bar. I think that they Got my meaning by the rest of the context.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,492
113
#55
Because the quote is right in scripture and Jude called it prophecy from Enoch.

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
Gods word is inspired, Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, and the book of Enoch isnt included.

No question Enoch was a man of God, however his written book has been excluded from the inspired cannon of scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Genesis 5:22-24KJV
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,773
1,548
113
#56
lol. well I know he's not Enoch but seeing you mention his link/website (Zephaniah.EU) as if his research on this is anything superior to any of our own opinions I wondered if he was anyone other than just some "other guy on the internet" and thought I would ask. Who knows he might have a degree or something and may have uncovered something that would be valuable on the subject do you know who he is?
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#57
lol. well I know he's not Enoch but seeing you mention his link/website (Zephaniah.EU) as if his research on this is anything superior to any of our own opinions I wondered if he was anyone other than just some "other guy on the internet" and thought I would ask. Who knows he might have a degree or something and may have uncovered something that would be valuable on the subject do you know who he is?
I don't know who he is. Megenta posted it. I read it and passed it on. It is a collection of the same information I have discovered by reading about it when the subject has come up in the past.

There are much more scholarly papers that cite all their sources that one can find doing a Google search. I liked that one because it was simple for people and covers all the important points.

One thing a pastor friend told me that I agree with. In 17 years of pastoring he has never had even one person ask him about the book of Enoch and not one person try to talk to him about angels marrying humans and having giants. Not one. His point is that most people don't care about this topic and would think it has nothing to do with their walk with Christ. I found that insightful.
 
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#58
I will say this, the written materials of Enoch and Jasper were out to Believers before the Torah was written.
Why is that important?
Chapter ONE of Enoch was on the scene before Daniel's Vision and at least 4,500 years before John's Revelation Vision. Both Daniel and John verify Chapter One of the Book of Enoch.
From Enoch: (Chapter One)
9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.



From Jude:
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


That is literally WORD for WORD [close enough]!


Therefore, the [KJV] does not only reveal to us there was factually a Book of Enoch the Ancient Hebrews had access to and followed as Inspired Word of God, but it even has [Literal Word for Word] quotes from the Book of Enoch throughout it.


***Even Jude, like Daniel and John also [Verify] Chapter One of the Book of Enoch***
 
Jan 21, 2021
66
36
18
#59
I have looked into it. Enoch was never part of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Enoch was at first accepted in the Christian Church but later excluded from the biblical canon.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/First-Book-of-Enoch

It is also called the Ethiopian Book of Enoch, because the book is best known from some forty manuscripts from Ethiopia
https://www.livius.org/sources/about/1-enoch/

The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church still include The book of Enoch in their scriptures