"Rightly Dividing" 2 Timothy 2:15

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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#141
#141
posthuman said:
@Blackpowderduelist

what the guy on the right here is doing is essentially a 'krumphau' ((crooked strike)) knocking away the overhead strike at his head, and following up with a thrust to the neck/face while the guy on the left has his sword deflected off-line and he's left open in the center. i think it's kind of what you're describing.

there's another strike called in the German tradition called a 'schielhau' ((shield strike)) that can both knock away the enemy's incoming blow and slide down his blade into a thrust, all in single-time. ;)
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It depends on what guard a person takes initially.bif they take long point, I will go fools, and with an upward stroke move their weapon away and then in with the thrust, but yes this guy is doing the kind of opening strike I speak of. Except he comes from too far back.
 
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reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#143
Mar 23, 2016
6,799
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#143
posthuman said:
so i'm going to say from this, that the fundamental intention of all of scripture is to testify of Christ, His person and His work. whether directly teaching us knowledge of Him, or whether convicting & judging sin, which is antithesis of Him, or whether explaining righteousness, which is His character.

from all this -- i would say that "the motion of the sword" when accurately handled is the movement of the Spirit of God, and that movement is speaking of Christ, glorifying Christ & revealing Christ. that is fundamentally what we need to keep our use of the scripture aligned with, if we are to use it skillfully, as "a workman that needeth not be ashamed"
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Yes ... the Lord Jesus Christ is the focal point of Scripture. Scripture reveals the Lord Jesus Christ and when we focus on Him, and intensely desire to understand what it is that Scripture reveals about Him, then Scripture opens up.

2 Cor 3 explains this truth very succinctly. And until we realize the Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation, we read all of God's Word (both OT and NT) with a veil on our hearts.



Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I surely do not want to stand ashamed before God because my effort to understand His Word was lacking (in diligence to the task (study) with the resulting inaccurate comprehension of His Word).



Romans 15:4-6 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

When we read OT scripture, are we comforted and filled with hope? ... or do we find ourselves scratching our heads asking "why bother trying to understand something that is ancient history"? ... and then argue with our brothers and sisters (which does not glorify God)?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#144
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#144
The biggest problem today is wrongly applying the wrong verses at the wrong time .
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#145
Dec 20, 2017
9,263
5,618
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#145
throughfaith said:
Yeah thats usually how some are swayed into the modern translations . " oh the only difference is they taken out the ' thees ' and the ' thous' ,really everything else is the same "
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Personal choice is personal choice. That is all. There is no conspiracy to wipe out your precious KJV.
It's bound to fall out of common use naturally just as ALL ancient language does.

The Holy Spirit marches on. You cannot and will not confine him to 1611.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#148
Jan 13, 2016
16,617
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#148
throughfaith said:
The biggest problem today is wrongly applying the wrong verses at the wrong time .
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Failure to rightly divide leads to works salvation, Lordship salvation, and the belief that one can lose thier salvation.
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#149
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
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#149
"Thus [Saith] the Lord" in 1611 is the same as we read it today as, " the Lord [Said]."
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#150
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
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#150
John146 said:
He confines himself to his word. If he is not confined to the KJV, then the KJV is not his word.
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Nice try, if that were true other language translations would not be His word then. Like ones in the different Chinese languages, Russian etc.

I like the king James, but there are now better modern English translations about. The Kjv gets a bad rep from the cranks and nutters who say it is the only true inspired word of God., thankfully they are only a handful of people around the globe... They mainly reside on internet forums ..easy to spot.
 
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Scribe

Guest
#151
#151
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. NIV (a dynamic equivalent translation from the Greek to English attempting to retain the meaning of the Greek)

I think we are mistaken if we put such an emphasis on the word "Study" that we see this as merely an admonition to be expert in Bible knowledge and hermeneutics.

The emphasis is on "presenting yourself to God as one approved" and as important as Study is ( I am reading 3 of the best theological and homiletic commentaries on the book of Exodus right now to help me to be fully aware of all the riches in that book) there is another dynamic that truly makes one "empowered" with the Holy Spirit to "Correctly" handle the Word of Truth.
It is "presenting yourself to God"
A thorough study of what that looks like should be done. God wants to put a stamp of Approval on you. A "Power of God" should accompany your preaching and teaching such that the "witness of the Spirit" occurs in those who are also "presenting themselves to God"
The man must be approved by God. Then the doctrine will also be correct.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#152
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#152
John146 said:
Failure to rightly divide leads to works salvation, Lordship salvation, and the belief that one can lose thier salvation.
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Its guaranteed. I haven't come across ,one time ,where that hasn't been the issue . It was my issue when I was wrestling with those ideas myself .
Scribe said:
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. NIV (a dynamic equivalent translation from the Greek to English attempting to retain the meaning of the Greek)

I think we are mistaken if we put such an emphasis on the word "Study" that we see this as merely an admonition to be expert in Bible knowledge and hermeneutics.

The emphasis is on "presenting yourself to God as one approved" and as important as Study is ( I am reading 3 of the best theological and homiletic commentaries on the book of Exodus right now to help me to be fully aware of all the riches in that book) there is another dynamic that truly makes one "empowered" with the Holy Spirit to "Correctly" handle the Word of Truth.
It is "presenting yourself to God"
A thorough study of what that looks like should be done. God wants to put a stamp of Approval on you. A "Power of God" should accompany your preaching and teaching such that the "witness of the Spirit" occurs in those who are also "presenting themselves to God"
The man must be approved by God. Then the doctrine will also be correct.
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Whilst that sounds good ,I still think its a worthless instruction to be told to ' rightly handle ' . How ? How isn't answered . Yes present your self to God ect . But How to Handle the word is removed from the modern translations . Sadly this isn't the only verse .
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#153
Feb 12, 2009
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#153
throughfaith said:
Whilst that sounds good ,I still think its a worthless instruction to be told to ' rightly handle ' . How ? How isn't answered . Yes present your self to God ect . But How to Handle the word is removed from the modern translations . Sadly this isn't the only verse .
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I think that's where you go wrong... you actually and literally ''divide'' God's word.. an example would be - you say Paul has a different Gospel than Jesus, that is wrongful dividing..

Where as those who say there is only one good news. Paul actually quotes the OT beautifully here : but the righteous shall live by his faith (Habbakuk 2:4 b); “The righteous shall live by faith." (Gal 3:11b). This is rightfully dividing.

I understand what the Kjv is saying here, evidently you don't - you believe you need to literally divide God's word. Where as most Christians believe the statement ''rightly handling the word of truth' . (which is what the Kjv actually means by ''rightly dividing).
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#154
#154
Scribe said:
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. NIV (a dynamic equivalent translation from the Greek to English attempting to retain the meaning of the Greek)

I think we are mistaken if we put such an emphasis on the word "Study" that we see this as merely an admonition to be expert in Bible knowledge and hermeneutics.

The emphasis is on "presenting yourself to God as one approved" and as important as Study is ( I am reading 3 of the best theological and homiletic commentaries on the book of Exodus right now to help me to be fully aware of all the riches in that book) there is another dynamic that truly makes one "empowered" with the Holy Spirit to "Correctly" handle the Word of Truth.
It is "presenting yourself to God"
A thorough study of what that looks like should be done. God wants to put a stamp of Approval on you. A "Power of God" should accompany your preaching and teaching such that the "witness of the Spirit" occurs in those who are also "presenting themselves to God"
The man must be approved by God. Then the doctrine will also be correct.
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trophy.jpg I felt the POWER when I reread that. So I gave myself a trophy!
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#155
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#155
phil36 said:
I think that's where you go wrong... you actually and literally ''divide'' God's word.. an example would be - you say Paul has a different Gospel than Jesus, that is wrongful dividing..

Where as those who say there is only one good news. Paul actually quotes the OT beautifully here : but the righteous shall live by his faith (Habbakuk 2:4 b); “The righteous shall live by faith." (Gal 3:11b). This is rightfully dividing.

I understand what the Kjv is saying here, evidently you don't - you believe you need to literally divide God's word. Where as most Christians believe the statement ''rightly handling the word of truth' . (which is what the Kjv actually means by ''rightly dividing).
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Ok a few things here . It says ' rightly ' divide. So we understand that to mean ' rightly divide ' not wrongly divide . If you cannot see that Luke 6.9 ( the gospel they are preaching) which does not speak on the death ,burial and resurrection, is different to what we preach today ( Paul's Gospel, then i really do not know what else to say to you. A gospel preaching TODAY without the death , burial and resurrection? hmm ?
I think also, and i don't know if your intentionally doing it , but your over exaggerating the the point. Do you do animal sacrifices today? if not why not ? Its probably because you see a difference happening. This is all we mean by ' rightly dividing ' ( essentially) .
And finally and ironically you actually just made my point. You quoted an OT verse and NT Verse without noticing the difference ( rightly dividing) .
Notice one word that's not there in Gal but is in Habbakuk 2.4 ? ' HIS ' . Go read it again . Things different are not the same . If you wrongly divide you will miss it . Like you just did .
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#156
Jul 31, 2013
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#156
throughfaith said:
Notice one word that's not there in Gal but is in Habbakuk 2.4 ? ' HIS ' . Go read it again . Things different are not the same . If you wrongly divide you will miss it . Like you just did .
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the word "his" isn't in the text exactly, but implied by the 3rd person masculine suffix.
we need to remember that as much as we might love the kjv, it's a translation: English is not the language of the scripture.

Paul's not misquoting it.


1614016239934.png
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#157
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#157
posthuman said:
the word "his" isn't in the text exactly, but implied by the 3rd person masculine suffix.
we need to remember that as much as we might love the kjv, it's a translation: English is not the language of the scripture.

Paul's not misquoting it.


View attachment 225656
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Those idiot translators . Why do all of them include ' his ' in Hab 2.4 ? Like all of them ? Even those modern translations. Even the Esv ?
KJV
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
NKJV
“Behold the proud,
His soul is not upright in him;
But the just shall live by his faith.
NASB
“Behold, as for the proud one,
His soul is not right within him;
But the righteous will live by his faith.
NLT
“Look at the proud!
They trust in themselves, and their lives are crooked.
But the righteous will live by their faithfulness to God.
ASV
Behold, his soul is puffed up, it is not upright in him; but the righteous shall live by his faith
I wonder if context can help here . In the old testament, they had to live by their faith . After the resurrection it s " live by Jesus, s faith. '
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#158
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#158
throughfaith said:
Those idiot translators . Why do all of them include ' his ' in Hab 2.4 ? Like all of them ? Even those modern translations. Even the Esv ?
KJV
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
NKJV
“Behold the proud,
His soul is not upright in him;
But the just shall live by his faith.
NASB
“Behold, as for the proud one,
His soul is not right within him;
But the righteous will live by his faith.
NLT
“Look at the proud!
They trust in themselves, and their lives are crooked.
But the righteous will live by their faithfulness to God.
ASV
Behold, his soul is puffed up, it is not upright in him; but the righteous shall live by his faith
I wonder if context can help here . In the old testament, they had to live by their faith . After the resurrection it s " live by Jesus, s faith. '
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was your point that you think Paul was changing what Habakkuk said?

do you think Paul is deliberately misquoting him because Paul thinks the prophet's testimony has been 'divided' from some new truth?

is Paul abrogating scripture, in your opinion, or is Paul citing the word spoken by Habakkuk as authoritatively true and directly relevant & identical to the gospel he is preaching?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#159
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
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#159

are we "dividing" or are we "correctly handling" :unsure:
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#160
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#160
posthuman said:
the word "his" isn't in the text exactly, but implied by the 3rd person masculine suffix.
we need to remember that as much as we might love the kjv, it's a translation: English is not the language of the scripture.

Paul's not misquoting it.


View attachment 225656
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Romans 1:17

“For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith : as it is written, The just shall live by faith ”

Habb 2.4
4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him : but the just shall live by his faith.

Gal 3 .11
11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith

12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them .

13¶Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith

.
 
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