Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

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Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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We have a major problem here . The easiest question should be " what is the Gospel we preach today " ..And yet most on this thread cannot answer ??
I believe it is you that has a problem. There is only one Gospel, and it is called "the eternal Gospel" in Scripture. So the issue of "today" does not even arise.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Neither do I. That's a great way to learn apostasy. The Bible is clear that we should depend upon the instruction of the Lord first and foremost.

there's value to it. there's value to knowing what people think and why they think what they think. there's also value in that, if you have some idea and no one in all of Christendom has ever had the same idea, that's a red flag. and the people that agree with you, the other things they believe, and why, can be a good sign of what kind of idea you're entertaining.

i just don't generally care to read commentary. i do listen to a ton of preaching of all different ilk, which lol is not a whole lot different than reading commentary ((rather than listening to it)) -- but for whatever reason i just don't bother reading things people write in the margin of Bibles or books they publish attempting to tell me what the Bible means.


the comments in my pastor's Bible are half crossed out and he argues with them in prodigious notes in his margins. i think that's hilarious, and good. but personally i don't even read them in the first place; i skip it. maybe that's good of me, maybe not.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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True. But to maintain biblical balance, let's not forget that the Lord gives evangelists. pastors, and teachers to the churches for their edification.

Regarding commentaries, they should all be consulted with the caveat that the commentator may be in error in certain points. Most commentators are.
I hear you. But, I've never met nor spoken to a pastor that teaches the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ, and that's a massive problem . . . it's the Core of the Gospel; it's the Core of the entire Bible.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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there's value to it. there's value to knowing what people think and why they think what they think. there's also value in that, if you have some idea and no one in all of Christendom has ever had the same idea, that's a red flag. and the people that agree with you, the other things they believe, and why, can be a good sign of what kind of idea you're entertaining.

I just don't generally care to read commentary. I do listen to a ton of preaching of all different ilk, which lol is not a whole lot different than reading commentary ((rather than listening to it)) -- but for whatever reason, I just don't bother reading things people write in the margin of Bibles or books they publish attempting to tell me what the Bible means.


the comments in my pastor's Bible are half crossed out and he argues with them in prodigious notes in his margins. I think that's hilarious and good. but personally, I don't even read them in the first place; I skip it. maybe that's good of me, maybe not.
We seem to see things in a most similar way. I don't believe that there is any person on the planet that has perfect doctrine. That said, I would much, much rather talk to each of you for your ideas than reading commentary.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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because their minds & hearts were not fully unveiled at one time to it does it make it a different thing they believed?

i don't think so. i agree there is progressive revelation in the Bible, but i don't think progressive revelation = multiple gospels.

i do analysis for a living. literally my job title is "analyst" -- when i have a problem to work on, i don't consider it a different problem as my understanding of the extent & the root causes of the problem become more clear to me through increasing knowledge. very often i have 3 or 5 'problems' that all turn out to have one cause. i consider that one problem with 4 or so expressions.

i don't know & frankly don't care if that makes me a 'covenant' or 'new covenant' or whatever kind of theologian. it's just what i think is the truth, what the Bible teaches, how Jesus Himself taught and spoke of the scripture. i think He spoke of all of the scripture and all of time as though there is exactly one gospel: Himself.
It will be simple once people understand that gospel means good news

God is not restricted to only one type of good news
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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But, I've never met nor spoken to a pastor that teaches the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ, and that's a massive problem . . . it's the Core of the Gospel; it's the Core of the entire Bible.
If by "spiritual circumcision" you mean the New Birth -- regeneration -- then this is simply a matter of terminology. Almost all genuine evangelical and fundamentalist pastors will preach "You must be born again!"

The New Birth should be regarded as spiritual circumcision, in that the "flesh" (the old man, or the sin nature) is cut off, and the sinner receives a new heart and a new spirit. This is the circumcision "made without hands", since the New Birth is supernatural. The sinner is born from above, born of God, born of the Spirit, born again, regenerated, and made "a new creature (creation) in Christ. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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I believe it is you that has a problem. There is only one Gospel, and it is called "the eternal Gospel" in Scripture. So the issue of "today" does not even arise.
Actually, it's the everlasting gospel, and here's exactly what it says:

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Today, if I were to go around preaching this message, "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made the heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters"...would anybody be getting saved?
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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i.e. it does not **change** but the perception of it does, and the hidden thing in it becomes seen.

i.e. there is only one gospel, and it's been there the whole time, and you did not comprehend it, and the fact of you not seeing it did not make it a different thing.

tell me about what the veil obscures
I think we're talking past each other because i understand the Gospel as the bible says that it is the death ,burial and resurrection for our sins . I believe that if I just went around preaching the kingdom as they were in luke 9.6 ,which was also called good news , I would be heretical.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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If by "spiritual circumcision" you mean the New Birth -- regeneration -- then this is simply a matter of terminology. Almost all genuine evangelical and fundamentalist pastors will preach "You must be born again!"

The New Birth should be regarded as spiritual circumcision, in that the "flesh" (the old man, or the sin nature) is cut off, and the sinner receives a new heart and a new spirit. This is the circumcision "made without hands", since the New Birth is supernatural. The sinner is born from above, born of God, born of the Spirit, born again, regenerated, and made "a new creature (creation) in Christ. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.
We don't have a verse for gentiles that says specifically ' we get a new heart ' . This sounds like your quoting a verse in Ezekiel which is about Israel. This leads to Lordship salvation.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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I believe it is you that has a problem. There is only one Gospel, and it is called "the eternal Gospel" in Scripture. So the issue of "today" does not even arise.
If your wilfully asserting something as if wilfully asserting makes it so, at least quote a verse .'' .The eternal gospel ' Are you referring to " fear God ' ?
 

throughfaith

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I believe it is you that has a problem. There is only one Gospel, and it is called "the eternal Gospel" in Scripture. So the issue of "today" does not even arise.
How is it possible to have the Gospel of the Death , burial and resurrection be the same as the Gospel of the kingdom? The Gospel of the kingdom did not have the good news about Jesus death burial and resurrection for the sins of the world in it . It would not be good news to preach " Jesus has not died for your sins " today. Please tell me would it be good news today to preach luke 9.6 to a gentile today. A message that does not contain " Jesus died for your sins " ? I was not saved without believing in Jesus death and resurrection for my sins . In his blood .
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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The NLT is rather succinct about this answer. Check it out . . .

John 5:39 NLT - "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!"
the language here is enigmatic -- @Magenta my dear purple sister disagrees with my opinion here, and has good reason to -- as far as i have been self-taught ((which is not really being taught so take this with salt)) about Greek, the grammar can either be read as a command "search!" or a statement of factual observation "you search.."
i take it as a command. in my opinion, Jesus is telling them,
search! because you think there is life in these words! and these are about Me!
Magenta takes it as a statement of fact. you people search, thinking there is life in these -- and they're speaking about Me, THE Life!


either way, i think, John 5:39 tells us what the whole purpose and meaning of scripture is. it's testimony of the person & work of the Messiah. Magenta and i both reach this same conclusion no matter how different the little nuances of our understanding may be :)
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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If by "spiritual circumcision" you mean the New Birth -- regeneration -- then this is simply a matter of terminology. Almost all genuine evangelical and fundamentalist pastors will preach "You must be born again!"

The New Birth should be regarded as spiritual circumcision, in that the "flesh" (the old man, or the sin nature) is cut off, and the sinner receives a new heart and a new spirit. This is the circumcision "made without hands", since the New Birth is supernatural. The sinner is born from above, born of God, born of the Spirit, born again, regenerated, and made "a new creature (creation) in Christ. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.
Wow. Nice job! Still, though . . . the "church" system that I was involved with never taught Circumcision . . . ever. It is this very word that links us to Abraham, hence, it is sad that no one used this word . . . especially in church. Imagine two little kids talking about circumcision in front of adults; oh, the horror of it! But . . . that is precisely what we need to be talking about. Once we get the word on our lips . . . we no longer think of it in terms of a physical idea, but it becomes a Spiritual idea, and the images of a man's phallus fade away.

I'll appreciate the day when I can get back to church and hopefully find a church that is willing to get to the "Heart" of the Bible . . . pun intended. :)
 

throughfaith

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I bet Noah believed it was good news when it started to rain .
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It will be simple once people understand that gospel means good news

God is not restricted to only one type of good news
IMO there is only one "good news"

it's the very name of Him; "God is Salvation = Yah Shuah" -- that's what Noah heard; that's what Abraham heard, that's what we hear.

anything other than "God saves" is bad news.




you can say, we're not supposed to build arks. but i will say, that is about Jesus. if you're just thinking it's about building boats you're missing the point. yeah he built a boat, but the only reason God put that in His book is because it's a picture of the Messiah. that's the point. it's always been the point. the point is Jesus and the gospel is a person, even that very same Christ. someone misunderstanding or failing to understand the point doesn't change the point.
 

throughfaith

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1 cor 15
1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have recieved , and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what i preached unto you unless ye have believed in vain.

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


Gal 1
3¶Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

who gave himself for our sins that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

6¶I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you , let him be accursed.

9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that you have received, let him be accursed.

According to Galations which Gospel did they receive?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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the language here is enigmatic -- @Magenta my dear purple sister disagrees with my opinion here, and has good reason to -- as far as I have been self-taught ((which is not really being taught so take this with salt)) about Greek, the grammar can either be read as a command "search!" or a statement of factual observation "you search.."
I take it as a command. in my opinion, Jesus is telling them,
search! because you think there is life in these words! and these are about Me!
Magenta takes it as a statement of fact. you people search, thinking there is life in these -- and they're speaking about Me, THE Life!


either way, I think, John 5:39 tells us what the whole purpose and meaning of scripture is. it's testimony of the person & work of the Messiah. Magenta and I both reach this same conclusion no matter how different the little nuances of our understanding may be :)
I couldn't agree more. The Holy Work of Jesus is exactly what this Book is about. If it were not for the Work of Jesus, namely, Colossians 2:9-15, there would not only be no reason for the Bible to be written but because of Colossians 2:9-15, there would be no reason to create the world. Our Salvation depends upon the Work of Christ, and without it, there can be no Salvation. In order for Adam and Eve to eat of the Tree of Life and Live forever with Christ, all they would have needed to do, if allowed, was to walk to it and eat. It is the same today, for Colossians 2:9-15 shows that Salvation is entirely the Work of Christ. Adam and Eve would have received the same Salvation and Gift of Eternal Life that we receive today, for Christ has always been.

Christ does four basic things:

1. Grants the ability to Truly and actually Repent (which means to ultimately have changed and improved.
2. Circumcises the Heart, specifically of the Carnal State, Sinful Nature, Sin Nature, Mind of Satan, the Curse of Adam and Eve . . . whatever we want to call it . . . Jesus removes that evil Veil so that we can finally see the Truth. Simply put . . . Jesus enables us to become exactly who He intends us to be, and this is initially done by relieving the Curse that has assured death. Christ defeats it through His Holy Operation of Faith (as the KJV puts it in Col 2:9-15).
3. The Death of Jesus pays the debt for our sin. He willingly exchanged His Life for our life, so that we might be free of the penalty for our sins. Hung on the cross, Jesus took our Curse and literally became, embodied, or took upon Himself that Curse for us all. He is unbelievable!
4. Jesus grants the Holy Spirit. And amazingly, the Spirit, too, grants Spiritual Gifts and abilities. But notice that verse 10 of Colossians 2:9-15 says that we are "whole and complete" in Christ. Isn't that amazing?! So check out what Paul says AFTER that . . . he then moves on to explain [how] a person becomes whole and complete in Christ.

Truly, there is no passage that explains the Work of Christ in the way that Colossians 2:9-15 does. I gleefully warn each reader . . . if you focus on Col 2:9-15 every day for a year . . . your doctrine won't be the same by the time your halfway done (with that year).
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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How is it possible to have the Gospel of the Death , burial and resurrection be the same as the Gospel of the kingdom? The Gospel of the kingdom did not have the good news about Jesus death burial and resurrection for the sins of the world in it . It would not be good news to preach " Jesus has not died for your sins " today. Please tell me would it be good news today to preach luke 9.6 to a gentile today. A message that does not contain " Jesus died for your sins " ? I was not saved without believing in Jesus death and resurrection for my sins . In his blood .
easily.

this is the King of the heavens and the earth
and this, this is what He did

not different kingdoms. not different kings. just more to the story.
 

GRACE_ambassador

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Midwest
we should depend upon the instruction of the Lord first and foremost.
And, Then SecondMost {is that a word?}, All of These, Correct?
{Please, by All Means, supply Any I may have "missed" - thanks!}

HIS Instruction to "study," According To The Following BIBLE Study Rules!?:


"According To The Scriptures!" :

(1) “Let ALL things be done Decently and In Order!”
(
1 Corinthians 14:40 KJB!)

(2) Study ALL Scripture Rightly Divided! :

Study to shew thyself Approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth!”
(
2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)

(3) Never Ever add to, Or take away From, God’s PURE And Holy Word!
{ Including "God's Contexts!," Rightly Divided! # }
(
Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32; Proverbs 30:5-6; Revelation 22:18,19 KJB!)

(4) Be noble students :

These (in Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in
that they received The Word with all readiness of mind, and
searched The Scriptures daily, Whether Those Things Were So!”
(
Acts 17:11 KJB!)

(5) Build Sound Doctrine, God’s Way! :

(5a) “For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little!”
(
Isaiah 28:10 KJB!)

(5b) Find ALL Related Scriptures For A Specific doctrine! :

ALL Scripture Is Given By Inspiration Of God, And Is
Profitable For Doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness : that the man of God may
be perfect, throughly furnished unto ALL good works!”
(
2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJB!)

(5c) Compare ALL Related Scriptures to learn and know a
specific doctrine! :

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s
wisdom teacheth, but Which The Holy Ghost Teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual!”
(
1 Corinthians 2:13 KJB!)
{Comparing Scripture With Scripture!}


Simplicity” in CHRIST! (2 Corinthians 11:3 KJB!) Amen?

(6) The Best "Interpretive" Commentary On The Bible Is :
The BIBLE Itself!


NEVER ever interpret The Many Plain Scriptures
by the "few" difficult verses, But, ALWAYS Always
Interpret
the few Obscure/Difficult/Dubious verses
By ALL Of The MANY Plain and Clear Passages Of

God’s Pure And Holy Word!

+

ONE Final Excellent Rule for Knowledgeable Bible study! :

(7) In order to Honor The Father And The SON (John 5:22-23 KJB!),
in Preparation For Judgment, Always keep {Uppermost} in mind :

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do,
do ALL to The Glory Of God!” (
1 Corinthians 10:31 KJB!)

And then we ALL, who are "Called Into Fellowship With
God's SON,The LORD JESUS CHRIST" (
1 Corinthians 1:9 KJB!), And,

"Endeavouring For The Unity Of God's Spirit In The Bond Of
PEACE!..." (
Ephesians 4:3 KJB!), can obey God's Exhortations! :

...speak...the things which become Sound Doctrine!”
(
Tit 2 : 1 cp "SAME mind And judgment!" 1 Cor 1 : 10 KJB!)
Amen?

Would the Results of following All of God’s Rules Above Be:

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in
love, and unto all Riches of the Full Assurance Of Understanding,
to the acknowledgement of The Mystery # Of God, and of the Father,
and of CHRIST!” (
Colossians 2:2 KJB!)?
------------------

# example available here...