Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

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G

Guojing

Banned
#581
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#581
Absolutely said:
What a crock.

So twisted to think Jesus thought his mission was what you paint it to be.

Shameful.
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As I said, the scriptural references are all provided in that summary. If you don't want to check them out, no one can make you.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#582
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#582
eternally-gratefull said:
Not sure where you got this. But I would ignore it. It is way off base
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I know you won't change your mind so it doesn't matter.

As I said, the scriptural references are all provided in that summary. If you don't want to check them out, no one can make you.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#583
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
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#583
throughfaith said:
This ' good news ' is not the same as the good news we preach today.
luke 10
25¶And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26¶He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27¶And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28¶And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
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You paulines do not get it.

The law is adam in reverse.
The law starts with sinful man AND SHOWCASES his sin. Under the law the way to RIGHTEOUSNESS is being RIGHTEOUS.
IOW... I CAN actually be JUSTIFIED by the law.

In order for me to do that I would need to have NEVER SINNED FROM A TODLER TO THE DAY I DIE.
Do you see the futility of the law??????

IOW ALL THE LAW CAN POSSIBLY DO IS SHOWCASE MY SIN.

You guys are so ignorant of Jesus' mission it is bizarre.

You actually believe Jesus was so misguided he came to establish a Jewish kingdom under the law.

The cross being a backup plan
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#584
#584
Guojing said:
My question was, "If he was preaching the same gospel all along, why would he call it my gospel, when Peter and the others never made the same claim"?

The scripture you quoted did not address that.
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Hi, Guojing.

No offense, but it seems to me that you're nitpicking at Paul's words and trying to find fault when no such fault actually exists.

We need to qualify what Paul meant by "my gospel" in light of his own words which are recorded elsewhere.

For example, we read:

"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Gal. 1:11-12)

When Paul spoke of "my gospel", he was obviously referring to the gospel that he received "by the revelation of Jesus Christ".

We also need to consider that Paul was oftentimes contrasting his gospel with the false gospel or "another gospel" being preached by others.

Again, we read:

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:6-9)

Here, Paul clearly mentioned the gospel "which WE have preached unto you", so he wasn't claiming some sort of supremacy over the same.

Again, he verified the gospel that he preached with the likes of James, Peter, and John, and they were all preaching the same exact thing.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#585
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#585
Absolutely said:
You paulines do not get it.

The law is adam in reverse.
The law starts with sinful man AND SHOWCASES his sin. Under the law the way to RIGHTEOUSNESS is being RIGHTEOUS.
IOW... I CAN actually be JUSTIFIED by the law.

In order for me to do that I would need to have NEVER SINNED FROM A TODLER TO THE DAY I DIE.
Do you see the futility of the law??????

IOW ALL THE LAW CAN POSSIBLY DO IS SHOWCASE MY SIN.

You guys are so ignorant of Jesus' mission it is bizarre.

You actually believe Jesus was so misguided he came to establish a Jewish kingdom under the law.

The cross being a backup plan
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The “Ebionites” in church history and are characterized by paying reverence to “the words of Jesus,” while rejecting all revelation that God gave as it is related to the death of Jesus [see Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians].
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#586
#586
Guojing said:
I know you won't change your mind so it doesn't matter.

As I said, the scriptural references are all provided in that summary. If you don't want to check them out, no one can make you.
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Your way my change your mind. Those scriptures do Not support you. Only your faulty interpretation does
face it man no person was ever saved by the law or by being circumcized
that’s the mistake the Jews made and your falling right into their trap
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#587
#587
Live4Him said:
Hi, Guojing.

No offense, but it seems to me that you're nitpicking at Paul's words and trying to find fault when no such fault actually exists.

We need to qualify what Paul meant by "my gospel" in light of his own words which are recorded elsewhere.

For example, we read:

"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Gal. 1:11-12)

When Paul spoke of "my gospel", he was obviously referring to the gospel that he received "by the revelation of Jesus Christ".

We also need to consider that Paul was oftentimes contrasting his gospel with the false gospel or "another gospel" being preached by others.

Again, we read:

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:6-9)

Here, Paul clearly mentioned the gospel "which WE have preached unto you", so he wasn't claiming some sort of supremacy over the same.

Again, he verified the gospel that he preached with the likes of James, Peter, and John, and they were all preaching the same exact thing.
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Amen he was differentiating the gospel he received from Christ with the gospel the legalistic Jews which was not from God was preaching
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#588
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#588
eternally-gratefull said:
Your way my change your mind. Those scriptures do Not support you. Only your faulty interpretation does
face it man no person was ever saved by the law or by being circumcized
that’s the mistake the Jews made and your falling right into their trap
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No one said anything about being saved by them alone. It was always thru faith, but There were times when faith require works to show.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#589
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#589
Live4Him said:
Hi, Guojing.

No offense, but it seems to me that you're nitpicking at Paul's words and trying to find fault when no such fault actually exists.

We need to qualify what Paul meant by "my gospel" in light of his own words which are recorded elsewhere.

For example, we read:

"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Gal. 1:11-12)

When Paul spoke of "my gospel", he was obviously referring to the gospel that he received "by the revelation of Jesus Christ".

We also need to consider that Paul was oftentimes contrasting his gospel with the false gospel or "another gospel" being preached by others.

Again, we read:

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:6-9)

Here, Paul clearly mentioned the gospel "which WE have preached unto you", so he wasn't claiming some sort of supremacy over the same.

Again, he verified the gospel that he preached with the likes of James, Peter, and John, and they were all preaching the same exact thing.
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You are beginning with that axiom in your last paragraph, you consider that unquestionable, and it henceforth affects how you would interpret all the other scripture.

That is understandable and frequently done by many here. Thanks for sharing
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#590
#590
Guojing said:
No one said anything about being saved by them alone. It was always thru faith, but There were times when faith require works to show.
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Never was there a time

true faith will always produce works, there is no such thing as faith which has no works, that’s called a dead faith

but works never prove faith, nor are works required, no work you could ever do would make up for sin, ever
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#591
Feb 20, 2021
5,439
1,856
113
#591
Don't you guys get tired of going at each other as you do? It is so important that we be kind to each other.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#592
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#592
Live4Him said:
Hi, Guojing.

No offense, but it seems to me that you're nitpicking at Paul's words and trying to find fault when no such fault actually exists.

We need to qualify what Paul meant by "my gospel" in light of his own words which are recorded elsewhere.

For example, we read:

"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Gal. 1:11-12)

When Paul spoke of "my gospel", he was obviously referring to the gospel that he received "by the revelation of Jesus Christ".

We also need to consider that Paul was oftentimes contrasting his gospel with the false gospel or "another gospel" being preached by others.

Again, we read:

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:6-9)

Here, Paul clearly mentioned the gospel "which WE have preached unto you", so he wasn't claiming some sort of supremacy over the same.

Again, he verified the gospel that he preached with the likes of James, Peter, and John, and they were all preaching the same exact thing.
Click to expand...
you say ///When Paul spoke of "my gospel", he was obviously referring to the gospel that he received "by the revelation of Jesus Christ"./// What good news did Paul receive then ? Surely we can find out from Paul himself? Ok where shall we look ?
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#593
#593
throughfaith said:
you say ///When Paul spoke of "my gospel", he was obviously referring to the gospel that he received "by the revelation of Jesus Christ"./// What good news did Paul receive then ? Surely we can find out from Paul himself? Ok where shall we look ?
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Where shall we look?

In all of his epistles.

And...?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#594
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#594
Live4Him said:
Where shall we look?

In all of his epistles.

And...?
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Any place where its defined ? How to appropriate? Surely the very thing that is the prerequisite to salvation is in reach ? That we can be those ' beautiful feet ' that bring good news?
Where would you begin ? From Paul ?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#595
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#595
Absolutely said:
You paulines say Jesus preached a different gospel than paul.

Paul said if anyone preached a different gospel than his " LET HIM BE ACCURSED"
THEN PAUL REPEATS THAT CURSE.

NO wonder you guys hate the gospels and minimize Jesus.

You see Jesus as a heretic
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How are you missing this ?

Matthew 15:24

King James Version



24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Don't be offended, just believe Jesus when he said he's not talking to you. Your not Israel .
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#596
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#596
eternally-gratefull said:
Never was there a time

true faith will always produce works, there is no such thing as faith which has no works, that’s called a dead faith

but works never prove faith, nor are works required, no work you could ever do would make up for sin, ever
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Because you don't try to understand the Bible literally, that is why you interpret it as such.

You begin with an unquestionable axiom "Salvation is always by grace thru faith, apart from works"

You then interpret everything else, including James 2, to fit that axiom.

That is the defining characteristic of covenant theology, which all of us can see is the most popular method of scriptural interpretation in this thread.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#597
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#597
throughfaith said:
you say ///When Paul spoke of "my gospel", he was obviously referring to the gospel that he received "by the revelation of Jesus Christ"./// What good news did Paul receive then ? Surely we can find out from Paul himself? Ok where shall we look ?
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He, Live4him, failed to acknowledged that, if Paul was preaching the exact same gospel as Peter, James et al all along, there would be no need for the Jerusalem Council in the first place, nor is there a need for And when there had been much disputing, (Acts 15:7)

I mean, what is there to "much disputing", when, quoting Live4him "they were all preaching the same exact thing"? ;)
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#598
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#598
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Don't you guys get tired of going at each other as you do? It is so important that we be kind to each other.
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So far the exchange has been quite cordial right?

Once you participate in such discussions long enough, you will realize this, people rarely change their minds here.

And that is perfectly understandable, once one is able to care enough for a doctrine to be able to type them out in words, they have formed that over many years of reflection.

So it is highly unlikely for people to change their minds just because a stranger over the Internet says something different, at least not until the long run.

We also tend to hang around with people who share our common view and ignore others. This is called confirmation bias.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#599
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#599
Guojing said:
He, Live4him, failed to acknowledged that, if Paul was preaching the exact same gospel as Peter, James et al all along, there would be no need for the Jerusalem Council in the first place, nor is there a need for And when there had been much disputing, (Acts 15:7)

I mean, what is there to "much disputing", when, quoting Live4him "they were all preaching the same exact thing"? ;)
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They wonder why I'm harping on about Calvinism all the time . Its because even non calvs have influenced by their teaching.
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#600
Feb 28, 2021
4,910
2,532
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London
christianchat.com
#600
Paul preached the same gospel as Jesus ... but they Jerusalem possums needed straightening out and Paul did straighten them out. James wrote a letter and I mean the one recorded in Acts not the the one he wrote to the 12 tribes.
 
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