Who is the 12th apostle in Rev 21:14?

Are there any passages where people are called apostles who are not one of the 12 original and not Paul or Matthias?

So just to to sure I'm clear in what you are saying. Are you saying Matthias never was a proper apostle. Or not one at all?

What I am saying is we do not see in the word of God Matthias being chosen as the first 12 were. he was voted in by a lot cast. Although Matthias was an eyewitness of the Resurrected Lord Jesus did not call as he did the others.

Jesus came to Paul and Jesus said I have chosen him ( paul)
Acts 9:15-16

15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children[c] of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

Poor Matthias

Ummm...NO.

Acts chapter 1

[15] And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
[16] Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
[17] For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
[18] Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
[19] And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
[20] For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
[21] Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
[22] Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
[23] And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
[25] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

According to Peter, Matthias "companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us", so there's the evidence that you claim doesn't exist.

As far as your dismissal of God in relation to Matthias' calling as an apostle is concerned, you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

For starters, God had foretold "in the book of Psalms" (vs . 20), as Peter so rightly noted, that somebody was going to need to take Judas' place or "his bishoprick let another take" (vs. 20).

This is what Peter was referring to:

"Let his days be few; and let another take his office." (Psalm 109:8)

GOD is the one who foreordained Judas' replacement, and GOD is the one to whom those gathered in the upper room prayed:

[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
[25] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

With such being the case, who are you to allege that "Matthias' lot casting was a human thing, not a God thing"?

Furthermore, PAUL HIMSELF recognized Matthias as one of the twelve, when he said:

I Corinthians chapter 15

[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
[5] And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
[6] After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

Jesus "was seen of Cephas" or Peter AFTER HIS RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, AND AFTER JUDAS HAD DIED, AND "THEN OF THE TWELVE", and "the twelve" included Matthias.

Just for the record.

Personally, I can't see where it says Matthias is excluded and Paul is the 12 apostle?

If you say Paul was the 12th apostle you have to show the text where Matthias was ditched as one of the '12'.

Are there any passages where people are called apostles who are not one of the 12 original and not Paul or Matthias?

Didn't you read my answer? Paul was given the GC face to face, just like all of the original 11 disciples/apostles.


No I don't. All I have to do (and have done so) is prove that Matthias was NEVER present when Jesus gave the GC to the 11.

But Paul did get the GC face to face with Jesus. Just as the 11 did.

That's the proof.

Acts 1 indicates that the group of disciples after Jesus' ascension was 120 (v.15). And Jesus NEVER gave any of them the GC.

Rev 21:14 - The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

OK, let's begin by agreeing that Judas' name won't be on any of the 12 foundations of the New Jerusalem. He was a lost man. Peter makes clear in Acts 1 that Scripture prophesied that he would be replaced.

v.20 - “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms: “ ‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’ and, “ ‘May another take his place of leadership.’

Since the 12 foundations of the New Jerusalem will have the names of 12 apostles, who is the 12th name?

I have a solid evidence based answer but I'd like to see what others think about this.

But he was called The 11 apostle used lots. This is a biblical way before Pentecost ( Paul was certainly chosen aswell).

Numbers 26:55; 33:54.
Proverbs 16:33
Jonah 1:7
Acts 1:26


Sounds like to me you are saying that the 11 Apostles made a very bad mistake which they should never have done?

On the contrary we have in Scripture that Matthias was Chosen by the 11 (we can presume he was already a believer unlike Paul when he was called). So in scripture we have proof that Matthias was indeed an apostle as was Paul.

What we do not have in scripture is that Matthias was an illegitimate apostle because the 11 Apostles made a blunder. If the 12 had made such a serious blunder as you are suggesting then I am sure God would have let us know in his word.

I think your position on Paul is an untenable position. Its more speculation than exegesis.

I'll go with Paul.
Well over half the Letters to the Churches were written by Paul. (not one by Mattias)

Bingo! You answered as I was preparing my "reveal".

Jesus did not use a lot to call the 12. Jesus did not use a lot to call Paul.

and FYI I never said Matthias was illegitimate,. Matthias was too an eyewitness of the Resurrected Lord. Paul had a specific calling and job that no other "A" postle was able to do.

out of all the Apostles who are mentioned where does Mattias stand as effectiveness and a witness?

Next to : Peter, John, Paul,

Hi FreeGrace2,


What is GC?

Jesus did not use a lot to call the 12. Jesus did not use a lot to call Paul.

and FYI I never said Matthias was illegitimate,. Matthias was too an eyewitness of the Resurrected Lord. Paul had a specific calling and job that no other "A" postle was able to do.

out of all the Apostles who are mentioned where does Mattias stand as effectiveness and a witness?

Next to : Peter, John, Paul,

But he was called The 11 apostle used lots. This is a biblical way before Pentecost ( Paul was certainly chosen aswell).

Sounds like to me you are saying that the 11 Apostles made a very bad mistake which they should never have done?

On the contrary we have in Scripture that Matthias was Chosen by the 11 (we can presume he was already a believer unlike Paul when he was called). So in scripture we have proof that Matthias was indeed an apostle as was Paul.

What we do not have in scripture is that Matthias was an illegitimate apostle because the 11 Apostles made a blunder. If the 12 had made such a serious blunder as you are suggesting then I am sure God would have let us know in his word.

I think your position on Paul is an untenable position. Its more speculation than exegesis.

Hi FreeGrace2,
What is GC?

And nothing from most of the other Apostles either!! So I think your argument fails at the first hurdle.

The Great Commission. It was given directly to the 11 and Paul by Jesus. They were the only ones. Even though the groups of disciples when Jesus ascended was about 120 people, according to Acts 1:15.