Is God giving America up?

As for me I am a sojourner in this world, as is all Christians...

The context of the OP that I replied to then subsequently you replied to me.

As for me I am a sojourner in this world, as is all Christians, are you willing to use force to send Christians to our place where we belong.

Fair enough. I might have inferred something you didn't mean to imply.


I used to be a libertarian also. It's a seductive path. But it's a fail. It's very interesting that libertarianism is promoted by those that have a super strong group identity to fall back on. "Group support for me but not for thee". Beware.

I'm not libertarian. I'm Christian, Christian is my only identity group.

I should have used the term "individualism" instead of libertarianism. I think of them as one in the same, but I can see how others could get hung up on that.

"Christian" is proving to be insufficient in terms of a meaningful identity. This is evident by the amount of infighting even on this forum. Every thread devolves into fighting over any nuance of scriptural interpretation. Not saying it's useless as an identity marker, but it fails to identify us versus them or friend v foe when you've got a whole bunch of Christians who push for masks and corona vax. Not to mention all the "Christians" waving their rainbow flags and preaching racial justice and cultural marxism. Those people are no better than the pagans IMO.

It's simple they ain't Christian. This is how to identify us. The Lord Jesus Christ is my savior, out side of him there is no salvation. You see? If they are doing those other things they are pagans because they are worshiping at the alter of the falsehoods of the world. They worship the babylonian God's.
So when I meet one of these I simply ask them to to say. Jesus is the Lord and my Salvation; outside of him there is no salvation. If they can't repeat that, they are pagans posing.

People can say they are Christians all they want, but their actions deny it. Anybody can say
Jesus is their Lord and salvation with their mouth...but does that make it true in their heart.

People can say they are Christians all they want, but their actions deny it. Anybody can say Jesus is their Lord and salvation with their mouth...but does that make it true in their heart.

Jesus said in Matthew 15

Matthew 15:8

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Like Oprah Winfrey claiming to be Christian but then loudly and widely denying that there is only one way to the Father...

Try it some time. Stop a conversation with a person you believe to be a pagan, a wolf in sheep's clothing, and look them in the eye, and say to them. " Jesus is the Lord and my savior, outside of him there is no salvation." Then tell them to repeat it back to you. Pagans get all squirmy and weird some even get angry. Its amazing how it works. It's like that confession has power.

Revelation 13:13
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Could this just be the USA using military weapons?

She never says outside of him there is no salvation; see that's part of it.

Where is the miracle in that?

What do you expect from New Age hypocrite Oprah? It is simply amazing how so many gullible women got sucked into her show and her ideology. Now she is playing the race card for all its worth, and no one is challenging her.

Not to derail this thread, but you might want to go back and reread Exodus chapter 19:

[3] And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
[4] Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
[5] Now therefore, IF ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, THEN ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
[6] And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

The possibility of Israel being "an holy nation" was an IF/THEN proposition from the beginning, and they rarely ever kept their end of the agreement.

Not only this, but this proposition DEFINITELY includes Gentiles.

For example, in direct correlation to this proposition, we read:

I Peter chapter 2

[2] As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
[3] If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
[4] To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
[5] Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
[6] Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
[7] Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
[8] And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Immediately after rightly describing how many/most Israelites had stumbled over the "stone of stumbling, and rock of offense" by rejecting Christ, Peter said "but YE ARE a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, AN HOLY NATION", and this "ye", in context, definitely included GENTILE BELIEVERS IN CHRIST or those "which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy".

How can that be if Abraham is the Father of those who have not been physically circumcised? Within the First covenant, that Covenant applied to all who would turn to Jesus for His Holy, Spiritual Circumcision.

Romans 4:11-12 NKJV - "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised."

The Covenant with Abraham revolves around Circumcision of the Heart, and that means that anyone who receives the Circumcision of Christ become a part of the Family of Circumcision.

Romans 2:28-29 RSV - "For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. 29 He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God."

And this is why it was said that anyone who does not receive Circumcision will be cut off from the Covenant Family. Physical circumcision points to Spiritual Circumcision just as water baptism is a reflection of Spiritual Circumcision . . . they are the exact same shadows of the Work of Christ.

Genesis 17:14 NLT - "Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant."

Abraham is indeed described as the Father of the uncircumcised too, you are correct.

It does not follow that God relates to us as "nations". We gentiles do not form a "holy nation".

She never says outside of him there is no salvation; see that's part of it.