50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

More like, everyone remain silent to your teachings in error, without opposition

The false conveyors were saying the day of Christ (return of Christ) is at hand. Paul says the day of Christ isn't at hand and won't be at hand until there is "a falling away first."

Those who have the truth (the church) will defect from the truth which will reveal the "man of sin" then after those preconditions are met the day of Christ will be at hand.

2 Thessalonians 2:2-3
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

The thing is, we went over this lesson yesterday... the text itself (v.2) shows to be in the "PERFECT TENSE, indicative" (meaning, they were saying it is ALREADY HERE [arrived/started at some point in the PAST] and is PLAYING OUT in their present experience [continuing on into the present...])... in these two posts from yesterday, where I provided additional links to that info:


Post #336 (page 17) - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4533243

and

Post #348 (page 18) - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4533276


It was something PERFECTLY REASONABLE for them to be [incorrectly] convinced was TRUE, *because of* their PRESENT and ONGOING, very negative experiences they were ENDURING, per 1:4 (i.e. "freak-out-worthy" stuff)... "persecutionS and tribulationS which ye endure" (in their "here and now")

Right. The day was not at hand and it wasn't a present reality at the time of the writing of 2 Thessalonians 2, but some people were saying the day of Christ is at hand. They were wrong.

Paul's trying to undo what deceivers have conveyed to the Thessalonians by saying that the day of Christ will not come until the falling away and man of sin is revealed.

Oh, you mean the truly "YIKES!-worthy" kind of thing. NOT.





[a scenario MUST "fit" all aspects of the text, and if it does NOT, then scrap that "idea" and start anew with examining what the text itself actually SAYS; the text does not say "is at hand," but "IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative]"; the Thessalonians were not "freaking out" (distraught in mind over) being told Jesus is coming SOON. NO! ]

Disagree - depends on correct "interpretation"...

Apparently some do, but I prefer "...comparing ALL Scriptures..."
Before making my Final decision on God's Sound Doctrine! Amen?
{Hence, the (12 above) of (17) parts of my Total "study"...}

Precious friend, thanks so much for your kind words -
looking forward to a Great discussion with you:

I study KJV, and, try to keep "...all things Decently And In Order...,"
(Rule # 1), so, to me, first would be "God's Contexts" (part of Rule 3):

THREE "Ages" Rightly Divided (Rule #2 of BSR) = God's TIMELINES!

a little Lengthy, so, next post...

continued from Previous:

THREE "Ages" Rightly Divided (Rule #2 of BSR) = God's TIMELINES!

---- Ages past --------- ===== ("But NOW!") ===== ---------- Ages To Come
earthly (physical) --==== heavenly (spiritual) ====---- back to the earth
Prophecy -------=== ([Secret] Mystery Revealed) ===--- Prophecy (cont'd)

Good News of -------=== Greatest News of ===--- The Everlasting Gospel
The Kingdom ----- === Amazing Grace of God === ------- of The Kingdom

------------------------------- === [ “The Faith” ]
Gen – Acts 1-8 ( Acts 9 – [ Romans - Philemon # ] ) === ------ Heb – Rev
{ LAW - ( transition period ) - Amazing GRACE! } === ---------- NT cont'd?

God's Prophetic Program Ages Past! –
“earthly” Under LAW, preaching "gospel of the kingdom":

Jesus as Humble Servant - to the Jews Only - to Suffer/Die/Rise -
12 apostles - ** Warnings = Great Tribulation / angels / TRUMPETS
/ Second Coming ** (Matthew 24 : 27-31)

(so-called) “Great” Commission - Kingdom offered / rejected =
Israel “fell,” Blaspheming The Holy Ghost – Thus Israel Cannot
Be A Blessing to the world {until the future}, and:

The Scripture “now concludes ALL Jews with” Gentiles, Under Sin
and Guilty Before A Holy And Just God, And, God In Mercy And GRACE
Saves His Other apostle [ Paul, “born out of due time,” to PREACH
THE GOSPEL OF GRACE! ]...

►►
{ God's VOICE (1st 'TRUMP') "Opening!" The Current AGE Of GRACE! =
JESUS, From Heaven, SAID: "Saul, Saul, Why persecutest thou ME?"
(Acts 9 : 4 KJB!) } ◄◄

...And, to Paul, our GRACE apostle, “Reveals to him His Hidden”
Secret, for:
======================================================
God's Revelation Of The Mystery ( While placing HIS Law/Prophetic
Program "On HOLD!" ):

(( "But NOW!" = Time Present = heavenly, Under GRACE:

The LORD JESUS CHRIST = At Right Hand Of God, Risen/Glorified Head
of The Church Seated In Heaven = “Spiritual Organism” = His Body -

One [ Both Hebrew/Roman ] “apostle to the Gentiles, representing
Reconciliation By The BLOOD Of The CROSS of Jew/Gentile [ two ]
Into His One “New-Joint Creation,” The One Body of CHRIST -
By One [ Divine ] "Spiritual Baptism" - All found in:

One “Faith + practice” Doctrine [ Romans – Philemon # ] - And,
Now, IF we may prayerfully/carefully Consider this CLOSING!:

"Closing!" The Current “Age of GRACE,” By One Prophetic Doctrine Of:

Great GRACE Resurrection/Departure!

►► { NOTE }: This Is "VOICE" { NOT "trumpet" } ( Note FIRST "VOICE"
above ) **At "The Last TRUMP ( Of God )" For This CHURCH Age**
( 1 Thessalonians 4 : 16 cp Acts 9 : 4! ) { God's Wonderful VOICE
Calling: "MY Church, Come Up Hither!" }? ◄◄

[0 {Zero} “signs” = “Imminent”] Resurrection/Departure Of Body
Of CHRIST! to heaven for The Judgment Seat of CHRIST ))
(1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15!)
==========================

Precious friend(s), Are you prepared?
==
This Resurrection/Departure, of course, is God “Recalling His
ambassadors” Before Declaring War on the wicked in:
-------------------------
Ages To Come! -

God's "Prophetic" Program { Which Was ON HOLD During GRACE! }
- Continued:

The Wicked one (man of sin, son of Perdition) Revealed -
one-world peace/First half? TOJT

►► Mid-TOJT DepartureS!: 2 witnesses Resurrected/Raptured
(Rev 11 : 1-13)
+
144,000 witnesses "redeemed from earth" And Then Found in
"heaven" (Rev 7 : 1-8; 13 : 18 -- 14 : 1-5) ◄◄

...Second Half: Time of JACOB's TROUBLE (Great Tribulation) -

Armageddon War - **AFTER the last trumpet (of an ANGEL!)
immediately After Great Tribulation**
(Revelation 8 : 6, 11 : 15, 15 : 1, 16 : 1 cp Matthew 24 : 27-31)

2nd Coming with (4) “signs” of KING (of kings) JESUS CHRIST -

“smite the nations” + Kingdom [David's throne] Established –
{Another trumpet!} Judge the nations + 12 thrones for 12 apostles
over the 12 Tribes of Israel – Millennial Reign – Last Rebellion
Squelched – Final Judgment – New Heavens/Earth – Eternity
-----------------------------
Precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Blessed!!

Yes there were false teachings by men regarding the coming of Jesus Christ when Paul wrote, Just as you are falsely teaching "Falling Away" is a Deaprture/Rapture of the Church to heaven

Paul warned against the false teachings of men then, and he warns against your teachings now

Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means

That includes you

(Apostasia) A Falling Away Or Defection From Truth Once Held (Apostasy)

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Make up your mind.

WHICH ONE is the TEXT ITSELF informing us that the false conveyors were SAYING?? In the above post, you're showing BOTH.

But which ONE is the TEXT telling us they were saying??

"is at hand" OR "is present [perfect indicative]" ... which ONE is the TEXT informing us the false conveyors were saying?

CHOOSE ONE that the TEXT ITSELF is informing us was the case.




I'll supply the "help": https://biblehub.com/text/2_thessalonians/2-2.htm

When you think about it the entire passage is extremely tight, extremely forceful and extremely comprehensive. Triple redundancy and making its claim by every conceivable means. And harmonizing fully with every other pretrib rapture verse and passage.

I mean Paul is really covering all the bases here......

2 Thess 2:3
NOT to be soon shaken in mind........or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of the Lord had come.

Simply stated Paul is now CONFIRMING IN WRITING to the Thessalonians that they will NOT be going through the time of the tribulation.......therefore they can STOP being shaken or troubled because they MISTAKENLY thought they were actually in it.......CONTRARY to Pauls earlier teaching on the matter. Paul is both confirming his earlier oral teaching and debunking the false teachers.
How people can misconstrue this passage is simply beyond belief.

I think you're misunderstanding. Even though people were saying "the day is at hand" Paul rebuttals that by saying the day is not at hand until the falling away and man of sin is revealed.

Basically Paul repeats what people were incorrectly saying and then proves them to be false.

I must be Extremely poor, as I only have 1 cent, er,
sense {common?} ♫ 😇 ↑

I'm not misunderstanding.

I'm pointing out that the word (v.2) under discussion is (instead) "PERFECT INDICATIVE" meaning "STARTED at some point in the PAST, and CONTINUING ON into the PRESENT"

That is NOT the case with your idea that you are INJECTING INTO the verse, by saying the text says, "is at hand".

I'm pointing out WHY that is NOT what the TEXT ITSELF is saying.

Because of the "PERFECT INDICATIVE" nixes such an idea... the TEXT ITSELF is not conveying such an idea.

Back to square one! Try again! = )

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/2-2.htm

Again, to be clear... Because of the "PERFECT INDICATIVE" nixes such an idea... the TEXT ITSELF is not conveying such an idea, that the false conveyors were saying such a thing ('is at hand'... NO. The PERFECT INDICATIVE negates the idea that they were saying such).

No, I'm definitely understanding it correctly.

In their time the people who were conveying deceptions about the return of Christ were speaking in their present day, quote, "the day is at hand."

Paul says they were wrong.

That's literally what it says. You do raise an important point, though. If someone doesn't understand what they're reading it can be misunderstood and misinterpreted.

You have explained yourself perfectly, don't fall into their games in folly brother

2 Timothy 4:2-4KJV
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Yeah brother it really seems like they are trying hard to change the meaning of what is said. They really don't like that it's been exposed that it won't be the church who departs in a rapture before the man of sin is revealed. It completely undermines the whole pre-trib theology.

It's a technique called gaslighting. It's designed to make the opponent question their thoughts, sow seeds of doubt, and ultimately dismiss the truth. Don't fall for it.

The text itself tells us what it was (and it is NOT as you suggest ^ ):

"[purporting]...that the day of the Lord IS PRESENT [PERFECT INDICATIVE: 'STARTED at some point IN THE PAST, and CONTINUING ON into the PRESENT'; i.e. ALREADY ARRIVED at some point IN THE PAST and CONTINUING...]"

Paul is saying, NOT SO

[Paul is saying to the Thessalonians, don't believe THEM (v.2), instead believe US (v.15)]


(and then explains WHY it is NOT SO [that it 'IS PRESENT']... via the SEQUENCE he supplies 3x in this context).

Paul warned against the false teachings of men then, and he warns against their teachings now

Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means

(Apostasia) A Falling Away Or Defection From Truth Once Held (Apostasy)

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Same lie today as in the garden, Yea, hath God said?

2 Thessalonians 2:3 exposes the future Antichrist, and false teaching in a pre-trib rapture

This is the very verse that the Lord used to bring me out of the false teaching in a pre-trib rapture.

Genesis 3:1-5KJV
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.