Deception. Where do we draw the line?

I been thinking about this a lot lately and the wearing a wedding ring while single thread was the catalyst, as it were, for me posting this.

as a Christian I know that to tell or make a lie is not God's way and God has been dealing with me lately about a tendency I have to tell white lies so I won't be judged (working on some self esteem and people pleasing issues in my trauma therapy as an abuse survivor) and I been pondering about deception generally.

I Do struggle with a type of OCD known as scrupulosity or religious ocd, dividend to over think things and worry am sinning terribly over certain small seeming issues, so this may be a part of it for me.

would you consider the following things deception/lying?

- Going away on holiday or to hospital or even just going out of an evening. Is it deception to leave a light on and curtains part drawn to create an impression that am home in order to deter burglars?

- Dying your grey hairs, not with an intent to deceive but maybe not liking looking old or having grey hair?

- Wearing make up. I have heard prophets on YouTube say God gave them a vision of people in hellfire because of make up and God told them because make up is faking your look . They Say the same about straightening or curling our hair or wearing high heels because we are making our height, hair texture etc different ? They also say it about dyeing your hair. Well what if you due your hair pink?? No one is going to be deceived that your natural hair colour is bright pink! I don't believe the hell bit because I no longer believe that genuine Christians who are abiding in Christ to there. but are they right about the deception bit? Because I don't want to be a liar



- Hair removal of facial hair, arm or leg hair? Because again giving false look

- When am having a tough time and someone I don't know well or feel able to share with asks me how am doing and I say am fine

also when is lying for the greater good? sometimes it can be like hiding Jews in ww2 but what about this:

a teenage r brought up in strict family has issues with mental health to point of suicide and v unwell but because of parents Christ is faith they forbidden to see a counsellor or talk about their problems they go behind parents to get the help they need?

a wife has a husband who yells at her and punished her with violence fo r making mistakes like spending too much housekeeping money so she hides receipts ?

I been thinking about this a lot lately and the wearing a wedding ring while single thread was the catalyst, as it were, for me posting this.

as a Christian I know that to tell or make a lie is not God's way and God has been dealing with me lately about a tendency I have to tell white lies so I won't be judged (working on some self esteem and people pleasing issues in my trauma therapy as an abuse survivor) and I been pondering about deception generally.

I Do struggle with a type of OCD known as scrupulosity or religious ocd, dividend to over think things and worry am sinning terribly over certain small seeming issues, so this may be a part of it for me.

would you consider the following things deception/lying?

- Going away on holiday or to hospital or even just going out of an evening. Is it deception to leave a light on and curtains part drawn to create an impression that am home in order to deter burglars?

- Dying your grey hairs, not with an intent to deceive but maybe not liking looking old or having grey hair?

- Wearing make up. I have heard prophets on YouTube say God gave them a vision of people in hellfire because of make up and God told them because make up is faking your look . They Say the same about straightening or curling our hair or wearing high heels because we are making our height, hair texture etc different ? They also say it about dyeing your hair. Well what if you due your hair pink?? No one is going to be deceived that your natural hair colour is bright pink! I don't believe the hell bit because I no longer believe that genuine Christians who are abiding in Christ to there. but are they right about the deception bit? Because I don't want to be a liar



- Hair removal of facial hair, arm or leg hair? Because again giving false look

- When am having a tough time and someone I don't know well or feel able to share with asks me how am doing and I say am fine

also when is lying for the greater good? sometimes it can be like hiding Jews in ww2 but what about this:

a teenage r brought up in strict family has issues with mental health to point of suicide and v unwell but because of parents Christ is faith they forbidden to see a counsellor or talk about their problems they go behind parents to get the help they need?

a wife has a husband who yells at her and punished her with violence fo r making mistakes like spending too much housekeeping money so she hides receipts ?

thought a wedding ring was for if your spouse died you could sell it and pay for their funeral (and other expenses)

if you dye your hair its kinda obvious it just gives it a different colour. You arent fooling anyone really.

the teenager who is suicidal probably needs to talk to someone, anyone, doesnt have to be a counsellor. Could be just a friend. God always listening but if they cant connect with Him then a friend is as good as any (trained) counsellor.

if a wife is married to a husband who loses his temper for spending too much she has to figure out how to budget and he has to learn to forgive her. If they are in a financial hole they need to sort it out with the bank perhaps they need to refinance their mortgage. Theres no need to hide receipts in a marriage.
Or to be violent for that matter.

See in those example I have I know both families

The husband with the temper was abusing the children as well as the wife with his anger and generally v cruel. So I think the wife should have left with the kids so didn't have to lie

The teenager needed professional help as they were showing signs of mental illness (extreme mood swings and self harm) and came from a background of verbal and physical abuse from a Christian parent . Because the parents were Christians they forbade the practice of psychiatry . I think the teenager was right in this case to go behind their backs and get the help they needed

Which brings an interesting side question to add to the discussion: Does the honesty you owe people vary depending on the trust you've built (or destroyed or lost) with them?

they were christian in what way?

when you say people are christian, what do tyou actually mean?
drugs dont help a lot of people they are a quick fix. Pyschiatrists are actually really expensive though they charge hundreds of dollars an hour, I wouldnt think ' because the parents are christians they forbade pyschiatry'. It would probably be cos they couldnt afford it.

No this is in the UK, and it was psychotherapy not just drugs. For someone whose life in danger because of self injury and suicidal.ideation and attempts. I knew the family well and they were well off middle class.family. This girl told me they forbade it because psychotherapy is anti biblical and also they kept screaming at her that she was taking her illness for attention. That's abuse .

they were christian in what way?

when you say people are christian, what do tyou actually mean?
drugs dont help a lot of people they are a quick fix. Pyschiatrists are actually really expensive though they charge hundreds of dollars an hour, I wouldnt think ' because the parents are christians they forbade pyschiatry'. It would probably be cos they couldnt afford it.

also the wife probably couldnt afford to leave the husband who was cruel to her, if she was lying about household expenses maybe she didnt have her own income.
Its easy for someone else to say leave, not easy to actually do it.

Which brings an interesting side question to add to the discussion: Does the honesty you owe people vary depending on the trust you've built (or destroyed or lost) with them?

They were hyper evangelical fundamentalist types. They had rules such as not allowing their children to do occult things like psychiatric counselling .
They were born again spirit filled Christians but v paranoid. This girl had a breakdown and the father blamed her illness for ruining his reputation as a deliverance minister. She had a mild learning issue at school (Like dyslexia but not) and her father would punish her for it by threatening to beat her if she made mistakes in her schoolwork. he said it was bad behaviour and refused the schools offer to get her help. She had panic attacks over this which I witnessed and said she was scared of him. He was one of those Tiger Parent types.

They did inner healing ministry and deliverance with survivors of severe abuse and when this girl tried to tell them she had been touched inappropriately by someone the dad yelled at her and mocked her telling her to stop causing trouble.

I know this girl well because i was closely involved in her life. Last I heard she had some issues with personality disorders and was being treated in a day hospital.

Either she telling the truth, which I think so because her distress was real or she was attention seeking which can be a mental illness. Might have been munhcausens. I have read about munchausems and it usually caused by some deep trauma early on. So either way her parents handled it badly

I'm not saying her parents are bad people, they did spend a lot of money on her clothes and schooling and she had the best of everything but their strict parenting didn't help their kids.

i recall going to a friends family funeral, her nephew had committed suicide, the family werent christians but the boy did go to a catholic school, but it was the thing they never talked about their feelings because a lot of families just dont. at the funeral, which was actually held in a church the minister did say if you have a problem you talk to someone, dont bottle it up. a lot of people had no idea that this boy (he was 26) was suffering depression. They just thought his behaviour was normal.

many families have this code of silence around them, they could never admit to things being wrong because of pride. anyway...you have to be honest about things.

Eh... that would be getting cause and effect mixed up.

Now the EFFORT i put into being honest, that would vary a lot. If I found uncle Fred's wallet I'd drive two towns over to deliver it to him personally. If I found a wallet owned by somebody I know is a class F jerk, I would turn it in to the store where I found it. Maybe I'd call him and tell him where it is. Maybe not.

eek
what about her grandparents. I often think about children who have problems with parents and wonder what the grandparents do. (if anything)